A new promisse to myself...to compose more

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Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

A new promisse to myself...to compos...

I always get asked this question ...do you have a cd ? and the answer is always ...

it occurred to me in in ears and years of playing besides 1 composition and a few adjusted falsetas and some videos of shows...i have really nothing to show for it...

I have a guy building a professional website for me and he askes me "- so what do you want to sell on your website ?" and again my answer was ...

..."what is the website for ?" ....(Me)

...so i have somewhere to upload some cool photos

my mom says what do you do all day ?...do you have any music to show me ? and my answer again is

..."well it dosent work like that mom ...."

i work alot on myself and playing but i don't really have any results people recognize to show them

so i think i need to start composing soon...good or bad ...as long as its mine and i can say i created that...its not that i am in a hurry to make a cd before i feel i have something to say ( il be the last guy in the world wanting to do that)...but composing takes trial and error if i start now i should have something i am actually proud of in a few years...hopefully

i need something to show for all this years that is mine...i have so much respect for those of you who have managed to compose your own stuff...i have always been too busy getting ready for something or learning something for something...but at the end of the day i have nothing that's mine ...

does anyone ever feel like they ready to compose ?...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 7:22:02

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
"- so what do you want to sell on your website ?"

Weddings!

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 7:28:26

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to XXX)

yeah good point...i am not crazy about playing at weddings but the money is good...they always want the absolute minimum...1 guitar 1 dancer...if possible 1 dancer...with a cd

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 7:32:37

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

Hi Flo,

Yeah

Flamenco tends to be like that. You end up knowing bits and pieces of stuff, but whenever you're asked to play something, you're stuck!
(Which always feels embarrassing, considering the years you've put into it.)

A while ago, I used to have about 5 complete pieces (made up from a mixture of other players falsetas and some bridging stuff of my own) which I always tried to keep up to scratch, so at least I'd have something to play.

But then I got bored with them and didn't play them for ages and eventually forgot them.

Professional soloists can't do that and have always got to have a working repertoire which they practise whether they feel like it or not. It's just part of the job.

But I think it would be a good idea for you to put together some complete pieces that you can pull out at a moments notice, even if you don't particularly like them 100%.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 7:39:27

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

i am so scared to compose cause i think it would be **** and thin

but i think i am gonna start slowly one bit i like at the time...if i spend hours and hours on little bits at the time i think i could come up with ok stuff...after a long long time...theres so much to take in consideration when composing for flamenco...melody is not enough...it needs to be thick too if that makes any sense

and then i play someone elses stuff and it makes so much more sense the way it fills the compas and its more sophisticated phrasing...i am better at taking something good and adjusting it ( to make it.... sometimes better or different !) then i am at inventing something good from scratch

todk how did you compose that kickass alegrias you had on your myspace years ago ? did you have a catchy melody in your head first ? or were you just trying things around till you found something you liked ?

if i make a cd now...right now my website will say .." don't be stiupid don't buy that cd

.. " and after you click BUY NOW

another screen opens up and says " Seriously ?"

and if he clicks yes again another screen opens up and says " I dont want anyone with your obvious bad taste listening to my music...get the hell out of here !! "

...

as a challenge to myself i am going to spend the next 3 hours ...to see if i can compose something and upload results...a falseta or something...see what comes out if i give myself a deadline...il upload it and u guys tell me if its ok or thin

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 7:46:34

Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

Hey Flo I am still striving to be flamenco but as it is now I am no where near that . However I have composed a cd of original instrumental music and have the material to record my second . It's a beautiful thing composing music . My gigging life has been pretty much cafe , restaurant , wedding and winneries as bacground music ,always acoustic . Whenever I play someone elses piece I really struggle to feel any energy or vibe in the space I am playing but when I play a piece of my own I can truly feel the goodness of music and the magic it can create .
Onto composing I can only compose if I am composing for someone else most recently I have composed a number of pieces for newlyweds , I get each of them to give me some words , I tell them it can be anything it just has to come from them . Then I spend some time noodling on the guitar until something jumps out at me sometimes it may not be the first thing . Then I have somewhere to start so I just use the words I have been given listening to the silables the accents the timing , and extend my beggining before you know it your piece will be coming together . Simple huh

The beauty I find in composing like this is that your music will carry so much more feeling as you think of the loved one as you play . The other bonus I have found with composing for couples is that you build a playlist that carries a happy vibe of love , perfect for weddings . Must stop now ,bring it on, your deadline is 1st of april for an example for us on the foro may for the finished product , I will be waiting

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Peace.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 9:08:59

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

the only problem with composing is that sometimes you sitting here wasting 3 hours not really playing...when u could be practicing and you have just gone in circles and at the end of 3 hours you still dont have something you like

and you still where you started only now you 3 hours short

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 9:16:04

Guest

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

I always get asked this question ...do you have a cd ? and the answer is always ...

yeah..
so where is it?
huh?
keep asking myself the same question....where's his cd?
how many $15 dollar mohito's do liz and i have to drink at tapas on a friday night before we get a take home sample of your guitar playing...? could have bought two boxes of them by now...
every one at tapas say they thought you were an awesome guitarist but he does'nt have a cd...he can't be that good then can he?

oddly enough the thought did come into my head one random tuesday after noon about a week ago..."why does'nt florian have a cd?"

so it's not only you

press RECORD.

a guitarist i worked and studied with comes up with a piece of music each day, rarely complete...adding to it while composing others over time
he keeps a journal so all his song titles are like '23 september 2007' the good ones he retitles...some are just studies...
some he gives away for others to play...some never finished.
blew me away how he did this...the commitment to that one idea...to produce and be productive knowing that he is just 'another' guitarist/musician in a world of plenty...who really cares?
little by little...

sometimes out of those three hours a section comes that stay's with you...

think it's a great idea florian...many here would support and offer assistance

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 10:21:39

Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

I am no where near composing yet but I think composing is not like: "ok, I am going to sit down now and compose and by the end of today I will have one song done".

I think it is more like coming up with ideas bit by bit and developing them, etc.

I often come up with falsetas, little tunes, etc but I'm afraid it's always when I don't have a guitar in hand (on the bus, train, during sleep

).
Someone suggested that I should hum or whistle them into my voice recorder till I get back home to play them on the guitar. I can't picture myself getting my phone out and start whistling on the bus or at my desk at work

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 11:18:27

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1891
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Argaith)

the two things that improved me the most were tabbing stuff and composing stuff...it's rewarding because you explore your own limits, or at least in my case what i heard in my head was always stuff a bit too difficult for my hands, but having been forced to learn it, i improved...it doesn't have to be a painful and lengthy process, just write down whatever comes to mind...:)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 11:46:41

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

so where is it?

you will never hear my cd because by the time i am ready to record i would have been so old and forgot to press record and just sold empty cds ...and you will be so old that you would have forgotten to buy one

jk...i am working on it...first part of the process is admitting you have a problem

quote:

oddly enough the thought did come into my head one random tuesday after noon about a week ago..."why does'nt florian have a cd?"

the most honest answer i can think of is a genuine fear of putting out some crap that i wont be proud of in 2 or 3 years time and it will haunt me forever

...but i am working on just getting over that ...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 12:35:48

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Florian)

[Deleted by Admins]

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 16:08:53

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Guest)

excellent rumbaking :- ) good news for me too...in the last 2 hours i have come up with about 30 seconds of music that i am actually proud off...60 if i repeat it

i dont mean to brag but its as good as anybody's !! for 30 seconds...now the test...il leave it alone and see if i still like it tomorrow

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 17:21:15

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

Flo,

I've composed heaps of falsetas, some I really liked.

Just start with a chord you like the sound of....and depending on your mood play around and find a second chord you think compliments that mood.

Then find an interesting way of getting from chord 1 to chord 2.

Then add a third...and a fourth and before you know it you need a resolving chord and it's complete.

Then work on it a bit and clean it up and make it sound mas Flamenco.

Just a suggestion of one method...

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 17:39:34

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Ron.M)

thanks Ron i will try that its a good suggestion i find myself subconsciously wanting to go to stuff from cds that i have previously heard and liked...can you get sued from having many little parts from many different guitarists ?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 18:03:49

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

can you get sued from having many little parts from many different guitarists ?

Not individual notes, thankfully...ie nobody owns F#

Naw, you know what I mean....sometimes you are just noodling around and find a really pleasing chord shape that has a really nice sound?
Well find another such that when you play one after the other, it evokes a mood.

Just keep playing one and then the other and start thinking about what kind of compás would work filling in the change between the two. Try a few.

Forget about falsetas you've heard before, just listen to what the sounds coming from the guitar tell you and let them guide you.

Try it.

It's actually very therapeutic and makes you really listen to the sounds you are making.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 19:13:54

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
Not individual notes, thankfully...ie nobody owns F#

Wrong. Vicente owns D#.

Flo, when i have an idea i just take my phone and videotape it, no matter how short it is. I find it great because it helps in not forgetting the ideas.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2011 19:29:44

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

can you get sued from having many little parts from many different guitarists?

No, but some people might say "ole." Montoya copied other guitarists' ideas; Sabicas and Ricardo copied from him, and Paco has copied from all three. Diego del Gastor and Melchor de Marchena also copied Montoya and Ricardo. Manuel Parrilla and Paco Cepero copied/copy some of Manuel Morao's ideas.

Depending on the style, one or two out of 10 falsetas might be my own, and most of the rest would be variations of other people's ideas.

When you tell jokes at a party, are they all your own?

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Be here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2011 6:16:44

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to NormanKliman)

good point Norman you are totally right, everything i play now is a variation of other peoples music :-) but i cant in all good consciousness really call it mine...and probably wouldn't be allowed to put it on a cd

quote:

orget about falsetas you've heard before, just listen to what the sounds coming from the guitar tell you and let them guide you.

I know, that's what i am trying to do, forget some things..but it happens unconsciously...your phrasings your closings come from stuff in your memory of things u heard before ...without meaning to......but then again i don't wanna to completely forget them cause that's what would make me sound flamenco ...

i listened again today to what i came up with last night and i dont 100% like it anymore

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2011 6:19:02

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

i cant in all good consciousness really call it mine...and probably wouldn't be allowed to put it on a cd

Pepe Habichuela had no problems quoting Sabicas on "Recordando esencias." Enrique Morente even used samples taken directly from old recordings! In cante, nearly everything is taken from other sources and imitated as closely as possible (with one's own voice, of course).

As long as there's some kind of implicit or explicit acknowledgement, nobody's going to mind (recordando esencias=remembering essences).

You've only got 100 years of recording history to inspire you.

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Be here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2011 6:46:02

Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

You need a point of focus flo, your idea is not a good idea anymore because it has ceased to have life just like a plant needs tending to . One other thing I feel compelled to say , if you can spend three hours on your guitar and not consider any of it as practice then you are not using your time efectively . your problem is not with the guitar flo , go deeper find out what is stopping you and right a piece of music about it , I still expect you to have a skeleton of an idea by the end of the month and a piece by the next .

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Peace.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2011 7:41:41

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to NormanKliman)

quote:

Pepe Habichuela had no problems quoting Sabicas on "Recordando esencias." Enrique Morente even used samples taken directly from old recordings! In cante, nearly everything is taken from other sources and imitated as closely as possible (with one's own voice, of course).

As long as there's some kind of implicit or explicit acknowledgement, nobody's going to mind (recordando esencias=remembering essences).

You've only got 100 years of recording history to inspire you.

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so thats alloweddddddddddd ??

EXCELLENT !!

quote:

You need a point of focus flo, your idea is not a good idea anymore because it has ceased to have life just like a plant needs tending to . One other thing I feel compelled to say , if you can spend three hours on your guitar and not consider any of it as practice then you are not using your time efectively . your problem is not with the guitar flo , go deeper find out what is stopping you and right a piece of music about it , I still expect you to have a skeleton of an idea by the end of the month and a piece by the next .

thanks for the suggestions Kevin , its not as bad and fruitless as i make it sound, i always exaggerate for the sake of a lough...i feel i am tiptoeing around the right places ...getting closer to something i would like..i just dont yet like what i did last night entirely...but i feel like i am a couple of different notes away...

theres probably defenetly more structured, productive and disciplined ways of composing...

i promise soon...regardless if its ready it or not i will post something...just cause it would be fun to share it and hear how it develops later

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2011 8:36:52

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

hey Flo,

Step one. Don't give a sh** about what other people think.

You are flo and that's good enough. Life is too short so record whatever you like. Step away from yourself and look out there. You will know what connects and what doesn't.

I don't look up to any compositions myself, only the expression captured by certain moments.

I spent over 200 hours on my latest composition and then abandoned it. It doesn't always work out.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2011 9:13:17

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to KMMI77)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KMMI77

hey Flo,

Step one. Don't give a sh** about what other people think.

You are flo and that's good enough. Life is too short so record whatever you like. Step away from yourself and look out there. You will know what connects and what doesn't.

I don't look up to any compositions myself, only the expression captured by certain moments.

I spent over 200 hours on my latest composition and then abandoned it. It doesn't always work out.

10000000% agree.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2011 9:26:26

Kevin James Shanahan

Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 10 2010
From: Wooli, NSW Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

Music has many disguises , how we feel about a piece of music now will not be how we feel about it in five years time . And I say give a **** about what people think after all we are making music for people. People generaly don't care how complex or basic a piece of music is ,ask yourself, who are you writing for , where do you want your music to be heard , write something simple and play it in front of some PEOPLE . Not giving a **** about people is a complete contradiction to becoming a quality musician .

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Peace.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2011 10:11:20

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Kevin James Shanahan)

thats it i had enough i keep going in circles and i hate everything f*ck this ...and all of you that are good at composing

..i keep going in circles and now it sounds cheasy

that first part after Normans suggestion i built upon a Carlos Heredia intro...the last part cheasy one is mine ..

gonna practice some cante accomp to clear my head...i thought i liked it but listening to it i hate it..its crap

http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/36/Ca81638.mp3

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2011 10:58:43

Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

It is very difficult to be creative when you are busy being a critic. The few falsetas I have come up with always occurred naturally when I was just noodling around and exploring, having fun. I liked the sound of a chord or a change and I just messed around with it.

Also, obviously everything we come up with will have some root in something that is there already. How many times have I figured out something from Paco and realized it is based on Ricardo, and then another by Tomatito based on the same Paco, but in reality Ricardo.

In any case, creativity should be a very free affair, if you are too constrained by pressure to come up with something that is amazing you are going to choke your muses. I am talking as much to myself as anyone here! For the moment, I am focusing on finding a style and a sound, an aesthetic. Not to mention trying to stay in compas etc...as always

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"I'm just a poor crazy man in love with his art." Santos Hernandez

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2011 11:48:33

Guest

RE: A new promisse to myself...to co... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

It is very difficult to be creative when you are busy being a critic.

quote:

.i keep going in circles and now it sounds cheasy

gonna practice some cante accomp to clear my head...i thought i liked it but listening to it i hate it..its crap

there you go.

why not upload some ideas? 30 seconds more or less?

find it pretty hard to imagine you playing crap florian...

thing is all those variations and falseta's i've heard you play live over the last few years sound like you....

think kevin and i are in a similiar place..can put together ideas but