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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca   You are logged in as Guest
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M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2011 19:15:09
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2011 19:25:16
 
estebanana

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

quote:

The luthier I have talked with, discouraged me from hide glue, and hide glue indeed was my original intention to use, so he said something about importance of superpenetrating agent and for that purpose cyanoacrylate seemed to be just perfector better.


That guy is a ****ign idiot. You always use hide glue for this kind of repair work.

If you use hide glue you can unglue any part of the job that does not work and do it over. And you don't need magnets either. The point of careful gluing is that you don't have to do tedious touch up work.

"This one is just too large. But still not 100% convinced if I should not rather cover it all up with some very similar-grained piece of cypress. (Any hints or ideas are very appreciated here.) "

You don't have the skills yet to feather in an invisible piece of cypress. That is why I mentioned using a border of binding around your Fishman hole. That way you can set in piece of darker wood with a sound port cut into it and not worry about feathering in the edges of a cypress patch. That procedure is really difficult to do on a curved surface. If you bind the fishman square with rosewood or ebony you can fit a square of rosewood in there and have the dark binding to work off of. If you don;t do a perfect job it will still look pretty good. If you insist on using CA glue with cypress on cypress patch work you'll just make an ugly mess.

If you have any cracks still open you should switch to hide glue and check out the difference in the work.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2011 19:44:41
 
M.S.A.

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana

quote:

That guy is a ****ign idiot


You are

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2011 20:14:08
 
estebanana

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

I was trained in a violin shop, if you had used super glue for that type of repair you would have been fired and kicked out on your ass in five minutes. I'm sorry that guy gave you that advice. Throw that glue away into a box and get some hide glue.
Don't even show me a picture of that ****.

Sometimes on rosewood guitars you can use super glue to close small cracks, but on blancas it's a different story. You should really go talk to someone in person and get some help.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2011 20:44:47
 
XXX

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana
****ign idiot.


you need to write it "fukcing" then it works...^^

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2011 20:59:34
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2011 22:30:56
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2011 22:52:45
 
Sean

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From: Canada

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

Go here, there is free information on repair work by Frank Ford that may give you some better ideas on how to do things. http://frets.com/FRETSPages/pagelist.html
Hide glue is the best, get the dry kind you have to prep yourself though not the liquid one in the bottle. Hide glue works amazing because it pulls parts together as it dries instead of just filling gaps and doesn't put dark stains in light coloured woods like CA can.
If the guitar sounds good and there is nothing wrong with the bridge other then its not your desired brazilian I would leave it. A change to brazilian is in no way any guarantee to an improvement in sound and may in fact lead to the opposite result.
Good luck on your project
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2011 3:04:27
 
estebanana

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to Ron.M

I think our repairer should get a consensus of opinions from some of the others who do good work, and then take things more slowly. Do tests and more dry fitting. I know you're excited, but just slow down.

My old teacher in the violin shop was fukcing perv. He leered at all the young women coming into the shop. I learned lots of bad social things from him. Anyway when I was in too much of a hurry he would tell me this story:

There was an old bull and a young bull sitting under a tree on top of hill. Down the slope in the meadow there were twenty or so cows eating grasses.

The young bull said to the old bull:

"Hey, let's run as fast as we can and go down there and fukc one of those cows"

The old bull calmly replied: "No, no ,no. let's walk down and fukc them all."

______

So whenever I would rush through something, my old mentor, he would look over and roll his eyes and say his euphemism for slow. "Walk down, walk down and fukc them all. " He was a fantastic guy. I learned a lot, but later in college I told this story in a feminism class thinking the irony would be so cool and that I was so hip I would get laughs for being irreverent. Well suffice it to say that was an error of judgment.

quote:

Honestly estebanana, how much would a professional Luthier like yourself estimate a client for doing a full restoration job?
Let's tell the man where he stands, cos I don't have a clue.

I think it looks a wreck myself. Sorry.


I can't give a price without seeing it in person. But since it has that Fishman hole , I would have suggested fixing the cracks and doing a tight cleated up structural job. Then string it up and see how much cosmetic work is merits. It's not a lost cause if you want a player guitar, but for a guitar fix up to sell it's toast.
It is a wreck, but sometimes wrecks end up sounding ok and can make good second guitars, or a guitar to play for dancers who like to kick guitarists. :P)

You can always take a guitar like this and throw a big tantrum in the middle of a show or dance class and dejectedly push it on the floor and pout. Then all the dancers will freak out and get really weird on you and think you're scary. Sounds fun to me :)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 22 2011 3:32:33
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 4:13:23
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 4:26:08
 
Ron.M

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

There is so much work needed on this guitar that I doubt if any professional Luthier would even want to take it on, as it would probably be easier for him to build a new guitar from scratch AND much less headaches.
My opinion anyway MSA, but these problems are WAY beyond the inexperienced amateur to handle, especially since you have no specialized tools or equipment or a proper workshop.

But if you are just doing it for fun, then by all means.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 7:22:14
 
rogeliocan

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

Did you every see the movie The Red Violin.

Well I would buy the book on the history of this guitar, it looks like it would have a lot to tell.
It had a good life, lived hard and wild, and it looks like it's not going to die yet!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 9:23:29
 
Ron.M

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to rogeliocan

quote:

and it looks like it's not going to die yet!


Yeah, maybe if a Luthier took it on as a special project, maybe for a museum or something, where the client was interested in restoration only and not too worried about the costs involved.

But you ain't gonna do much in your bedroom with a corkscrew and a breadknife and a tube of glue.

(Sorry...that sounds like the start of a dirty joke... )

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 9:48:47
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 12:23:32
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 12:37:36
 
Morante

 

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

M.S.A.

Esta guitarra vale la pena de arreglar. Lo que pasa es que muchas veces los arreglos son más dificiles que la construcción. Y necesitan mucho conocimiento y experiencia.

Es claro que estás trabajando mal porque ni tienes conocimiento ni experiencia. Y así puedes hacer todavía más daño a una guitarra bonita.

Deberías de ser más humilde, aparcar el projecto y intentar aprender algunos de las técnicas de restauración antes de trabajar.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 12:57:47
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 13:18:45
 
Ron.M

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From: Scotland

RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

quote:

I am so tired of these arrogant displays of superiority that you are so typical of.


??? Really?

I don't have any superiority to display, so I don't know where you get that from MSA.

I was only expressing my opinion of this guitar, which looked quite an interesting project at first, but the more faults I saw you posting, it seemed a daunting task, probably even for an experienced Luthier with a well lit workshop and all the tools, jigs and clamps and precision measuring devices.

I'm certainly not trying to put you down. Why on earth would I want to do that?

Anyway, good luck with the project and I hope you can get somewhere with it, as the guitar looks like it would have been very nice when it left the Bellido shop.

I know it will take a while, but the fact that I doubt if you will ever be able to make a successful restoration job given your lack of experience or resources should only give you more drive to prove us doubters wrong.

Will be interested in seeing photos of your progress anyway.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 13:53:43
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 15:01:53
 
Ron.M

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

quote:

without unnecessary irony you sound much better.


But unnecessary irony forms the major part of all my posts.

Surely everyone knows that by now, after 7 years?

Without that I won't have anything to write.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 15:45:28
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 18:51:24
 
estebanana

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

Well before anyone gives you advice you have to agree to listen to the advice and not use super glue. So a better way to do this is to do research first and study crack repair from books and online information. Then after a week or so of study ask how to do experiments and trials with glues, clamps and materials so you can learn how they work hands on.

What you need to do is study, study, study, study and then you will know what questions to ask. As it is now you don't even have good question. When you formulate a good question and prove to the guitar makers you have done some thinking they will be more responsive. If you don't want to study or listen then you have no business touching a guitar to do repair work and that's the truth.

However there is a private property law in most countries which dictates that if you own an art object you have the right to destroy it and so be it. For example if you owned a Vermeer painting you could use it for a dartboard, if you choose to throw darts at a milk maid or a geographer. Or you could even legally use marine epoxy to glue two dozen long black latex dildos so they protrude from Rembrandts Night Watch or even the Danae, if you owned them. You could also roll up an Ingres pencil drawing and use it to swat flies. You theoretically could cut up a Tiepolo canvas with a stiletto at a party as if it were a big cerulean blue sky jig saw puzzle and reassemble it on the side of your windowless rape van; or stick it to your kitchen floor with contact cement and walk on it. You can do all these things with objects you own. But it does not make it right or ethical, it's merely legal.



Go to the Musical Instrument Makers Forum, sign in and use the online archive library to research crack repair online. Go to the library in your city and check out all the books on guitar repair and read them cover to cover.

If you don't want to do those things then you are not a guitar maker or repairer. It's that simple. We all got here because we studied really, really hard, every one of us who makes guitars takes it seriously and we work our asses off to keep up on materials and techniques. We work long hours for less pay that other professions and we generally have more skills. And we have all put in our time.


But if you go to the library and check out books on guitar repair, remember:

WALK DOWN!
WALK DOWN!
WALK DOWN!
WALK DOWN!

that slope in to the meadow of vacas.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 20:08:04
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 20:46:51
 
estebanana

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

I guess you told me.

"So instead of specific, practical advice how to make it better I am exposed to cries from luthiers and big luthiers and even bigger luthiers about how I should not do it, rather give it up and some stuff that really is not any kind of help at all. "

I told you to go to the library and study, that was specific practical advice. Several years ago I had a long correspondence with a great American guitar maker of archtop guitars named Bill Moll. We talked a lot about opera, classical music and violins as we both started out in violin shops. He's a lot older than me, but we had similar experiences coming up, we both had smart assed violin makers as our first teachers.

He gave me a lot of encouragement and eventually I met him in person at a guitar makers convention. He said he loved my humor, then he said you can be a guitar maker, but you need to study more and keep studying. I doubled my efforts to study and thanked him for the advice.

Now I remember I should contact Bill Moll and show him what I am doing now and seek advice from him again. Randy Reynolds helped me in the same way, after he did I said thanks for the advice and went to study what he told me.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 23 2011 21:49:51
 
Sean

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

Personally I think because of this guitars condition it is a good candidate for learning repair work on. If you totally mess this one up it's not going to be the end of the world so don't sweat it.
I wouldn't choose ebony for a bridge it tends to warp and twist if you don't get a very well seasoned piece, I'd never use it for a bridge because I'm not 100% confident in where I personally can source it from. If you can't find any Brazilian you can just stain indian darker, this is not an uncommon practice and has been done for a long time. My choice sound wise would also be indian over ebony but that's just me.
Assess the damage thoroughly, inside out, struts, cross braces, form your game plan and take it one step at a time.
I'd also save the gaping hole in the side till last, a little extra access and light for making internal repairs never hurt any.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 24 2011 2:41:22
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 25 2011 0:44:50
 
M.S.A.

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 25 2011 1:48:49
 
estebanana

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RE: Restoring a cracked blanca (in reply to M.S.A.

* snap-Spap-snap*
You go girl!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 25 2011 15:37:29
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