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Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

2000 millionares more in Spain 

A few days ago, I saw the news on the telly and it made me sick to hear that in 2010 there were 2000 more millionares (in Euros) in Spain than in 2009.

This in a country where the economical crisis is still getting worse, where unemployment is VERY high (around 18% I think) Especially young people cant find a job and now their parents cant pay them an education either.

This country is totally rotten.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 8:34:07
 
rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Anders Eliasson

I understand that, but I wonder how their value was counted.
1 million dollars is worth a lot less than it did 20 years years ago. If you take a man at retirement age and add up all his retirement money he saved and if you count his house, there will be many who are worth 1M. Just the house alone over 30 years yields a good return on investment.
I know the majority of people probably don't save that much for retirement but for the ones who do, their net worth later in their lives can easily pass 1M. There will be more and more millionaires but 1M is just not that much money anymore.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 9:51:54
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Not just Spain Anders, its everywhere, the rich always get richer and in times of crisis the ones with money always benefit. The whole system is geared towards this.

As the great lady Billie Holiday sang

"Them that’s got shall get
Them that’s not shall lose "

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 10:19:42
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

Especially young people cant find a job and now their parents cant pay them an education either.


Not even worth taking up a career in Bullfighting either these days...

I know everybody goes on about "an education", as if every kid must go on to University and qualify for a nice job in an office.
It's the same here.

That's why it is so bloody difficult to find a decent plumber or joiner these days.

WTF...what ever happed to apprenticeships?

Is becoming a skilled tradesman now regarded as a "failure job"?

Sheesh...do young folk think it's embarrassing to have a job where you don't wear a suit and tie?

What a world.

BTW, forget about millionaires. On the World Service a few nights ago I heard that there are more Billionaires than ever.

http://www.advisorone.com/article/forbes-richest-list-has-more-billionaires-ever

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 11:43:15
 
Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

I know everybody goes on about "an education", as if every kid must go on to University and qualify for a nice job in an office.
It's the same here.


I totally agree with this, and I am a teacher!

School in the traditional sense is not made for everyone. Some people are craftsmen by birth; it is their calling in life to build, to fix things, to tinker with things and improve them.

I wish that parents would realize that these people make a very comfortable living at what they do! A plumber or electrician here earns a very decent wage. Better than mine I can tell you that much...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 12:00:46
 
sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

Sheesh...do young folk think it's embarrassing to have a job where you don't wear a suit and tie?

What a world.


Yes they do. I had the misfortune to see a program called Working Girls on the BBC last night that shows these benefit claiming layabouts dealing with their phobias of work. It's quite shocking really.

Give it a few more years and there'll be some kind of WAG degree.

This blog offers up some interesting info..

http://spaineconomy.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 13:50:34
 
Mark2

Posts: 1689
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Personally I have no problem with people with money. If that's what you put your mind and time to, that's your likely return. If you spend six hours a day sitting in a chair playing guitar, you probably sound good. How can you complain about people who spend 8-10 hours a day trying to make money? They sound like crap when they pick up a guitar.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 14:14:48
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Mark2

Its actually not the work that makes you rich; its more the other people working for you that makes oneself rich.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 15:11:22
 
Mark2

Posts: 1689
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to XXX

Don't discount brain work. If it was easy to run a large company, alot more people would do it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 15:21:09
 
bluesbuster

Posts: 56
Joined: Mar. 9 2011
From: Los Angeles

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Most people that run large companies are there because of contacts, relationships and sometimes flat-out corruption. Very few times it's about skill or brain work.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 16:57:28
 
kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to XXX

quote:

Its actually not the work that makes you rich; its more the other people working for you that makes oneself rich.
Within the context of a particular employer, it's actually both. Either one without the other isn't gonna cut it. One exception being, a self-employed person since he/she doesn't have employees to provide for.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 17:16:36
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to kovachian

Ive never heard of a employee getting "rich" via working.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 18:58:10
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Mark2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

Don't discount brain work. If it was easy to run a large company, alot more people would do it.


(btw i wasnt on the topic brain vs. body work at all)
Our economy is built with strong hierarchies. There cant be more leaders than people being led.
Its a myth that you could become rich with work, or that only smart people can run a company. Its part of the system's ideology. You have to believe these kind of things to not go mad. Coz they fail the reality check.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 19:11:10
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to XXX

Paco Peña, Paco de Lucia and yes, Juan Martin all got rich from plucking 6 strings on a Flamenco guitar for a living.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 19:24:12
 
sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Anders Eliasson

It's a bit like the Blair years in the UK. Who'd have thought under a (so called) socialist government that the rich - poor divide would grow so vastly.

Exactly the same thing is now happening in Spain.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 19:38:49
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Ron.M

1. they arent rich ("the top 10%").
2. "plucking 6 strings on a flamenco guitar" is not a type of work that i would call generalizable for a society, because consuming and producing art is not comparable to produce a car or other product (or service for that matter). Art itself is inappropriate for basing your economical/political judgments over a society upon.
3. im sure above three also have some producers earning not too much worse than they do.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 20:01:10
 
elgreco

Posts: 247
Joined: Nov. 24 2010
From: San Francisco CA

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Hi Anders,

I am not sure if there have been new tax measures implemented in Spain but I do expect the number of millionaires in Greece to increase as well. That won't mean that there were new millionaires in Greece this year but that now the old millionaires won't be able to hide their income anymore the way they used to.

D.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 20:17:03
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

new tax measures implemented


Are you kidding, we are close to general elections. Democracy nowadays is:
Within a a period of 4 years, theres 2 weeks of working and the rest is badmouthing the others.

Is that the reason we want all other countrys to have democracy???

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 21:19:36
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Anders Eliasson

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 22:23:09

tamoio

Posts: 20
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: mostly Alaska

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Guest

"all wealth comes from labour"

I guess I would only add that buying and selling real estate makes an iffy basis for an economy.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 18 2011 23:00:40
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Anders Eliasson

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2011 0:46:21
 
VietFlamenco

 

Posts: 139
Joined: Aug. 1 2010
 

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Guest

Rumbaking, although I agree with the majority of your post, I do not think wealth envy was the reason for Anders' original post. This post is more about the inequality of the rising division of wealth. It's true that if you don't like your financial situation, you should work hard to change it. However, sometimes no opportunities are available for the lower class. Heck, just look what happened with Egypt. A college educated student can't find a job, so he had to push a cart of vegetables. I do not see a way out for people like this young man. On the other hand, the rich have the means to get richer.

Within the next 20 years, 5 percent of the population will own 95% of the wealth. I pulled those numbers out my arse, but it's close enough.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2011 5:26:59
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to sean65

quote:

It's a bit like the Blair years in the UK. Who'd have thought under a (so called) socialist government that the rich - poor divide would grow so vastly.


It's interesting to see that half the former cabinet ministers have now got jobs as directors of the Banks that they condemned so roundly while in office.

Tony Blair toured the States charging £30,000 a pop for dinner evenings and talks.


cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2011 6:55:41
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Guest

quote:

Soon having a Master's degree is going to become a necessity to obtain a decent engineering job (at least in the US).


Folk getting a B.Sc or a B.Sc (Hons) or the equivalent M.A thinking they are destined for a good job are kidding themselves.
Graduates are ten a penny these days and many of them are manning phones in call centres or unloading lorries at Asda.

For qualifications to stand out, you need a PhD at least, or a lesser degree from one of the very top Universities.

Companies want people who are effective and that could even be someone leaving school at 17 and starting in the stock room and through proven ability over the years become shop or office manager, finally being transferred to Head Office in a senior position at 27.

That's the reality.

Not pieces of paper.


cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2011 7:10:20
 
sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

I am not really sure what the purpose of this post is but sounds to me like some of you are suffering from wealth envy!

I believe there is nothing wrong with people working hard, taking risks and making it big. Should the rest of us envy them? No....but if you are really dissatisfied with your existence then get up and do something about it.....rarely does money fall from the sky.....And always remember money is not everything in life!

This deal about envying others could be illustrated this way...Ask yourself how you feel when someone you know gets a brand new guitar....are you envious or are you happy for them?

Do you reason that they shouldn't have it because you deserve it more?

I certainly hope none of you think that way....because being envious over what others have is plain ridiculous!


Wealth envy? Does that make you pro 'greed and corruption'?

Perhaps you should visit Spain and see how ordinary well educated people are suffering because of the greed and corruption. Perhaps then you'll have some better understanding of the outstanding ignorance of your comments.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2011 7:20:49
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Anders Eliasson

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2011 8:02:21
 
sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Guest

quote:

Sean, You are confusing 2 separate issues. Greed and corruption with wealth......


I'm not confusing anything. We're talking about huge increases in millionaires in Spain under a socialist government. When greed and corruption have direct links to some people's wealth and other people's poverty it not so easy to separate them.

But wealth envy? As in the Flintstones? Where Fred doesn't want to be outdone by Barney Rubbles new flamenco guitar sound so he runs out and buys the best mic, amp and guitar that money can buy so as not to be outdone.

I guess it gives him something to talk about when he drives down to the golf club at the weekend.

Nothing wrong with a bit of wealth envy, eh Fred?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2011 8:20:37
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to sean65

i agree with both on the one had there is the rich get richer and poor gets screwed around...in some cases..and there are the people who have worked hard and deserve everything they have...

what amazes me and the reason i stopped watching this current affairs type shows...is that you see the camera guys and reporter chasing down the street after this old lady or guy who is claiming more government benefits then shes entitled to ...say $50 more a week...and she lives in a crappy house...

then you got the fat pockets white collar people ripping people off with a licence and a tie and the only time when they appear on the news is when they lost their high powered friends or money or a even more powerfull guy is trying to cover his arse... politicians that take personal trips with private jets paid for by the tax money (one of those trips costs more then the old lady could ever dream to ripp the government off on in a lifetime)...banks that can charge $2 everytime you just want to look at the balance in your account of your own money on screen ( not even printing anything )... etc..government tax pushing prizes of cigarettes to $20 a packet ( what makes it ok is that they say they wanna encourage you to quit.....nevermind they ****ing addictive and they taking advantage of that)...you get more jailtime here if you get caught growing tobacco then you do if you get caught growing marijuana...

road repairs contracts that cost $60.000.000 on roads i have seen absolutely nothing wrong with and after they finish and have blocked traffic long enough i see absolutely nothing different about it....

to watch some of the Australia soccer games on tv you have to have foxtell...there's other free to air stations that want it and had it but new foxtel buys it and puts it beyond their costs.....noone gave a **** about soccer when it wasn't popular here before...now that people like it , they have to buy foxtell to watch it and the station that pushed it and keped at it for years and years now cant afford it......same for the local league...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2011 8:31:10
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Guest

quote:

I certainly hope none of you think that way....because being envious over what others have is plain ridiculous!

Mwahahaha!! That's funny.
IMO the ridiculous is denying that envy (envious) is the engine of the consumism behavour. I'm envious, so i'm frustated, so i need to buy in order to calm my stress down ....oufff! and guess what? It's good for the economy health.
Damn! I need to work my ass hard to get cash coz my frustation never ending...mwahahaha!!
Thanks for all these marketing stuff that's suround me and make me feel a looser if i don't buy. Amen.

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2011 8:54:36
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: 2000 millionares more in Spain (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Basically, my attitude is very simple.

I dont mind people getting rich (I dont envy them), but I dont like that majority is suffering and getting poorer. especially not in a corrupt and very inefficient society.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2011 9:03:17
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