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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 10:07:02

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Dont use your time to be in this forum here. Use the time to practise.
Oh ****... I have to practise now. bye.

Oh lordy, my sides are splitting. You could also practise your spelling but very useful advice, thanks!

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 13:03:28

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

Well.........

I do not agree with you for this one........

I have a computer now for about 2.5 years.
And all my frends here gave me a huge carieer boost.

I was allways practicing and seldom playing out.
Till i got the computer and met the frends over here, First, I have to admit, it was a little strainge to hear from Americans that play flamenco, it sounded in my ears like they are selling salmon mouse and kaviar at Mc. Donalds

, but when I red the comments, and heared about the dedication, and after a while some recordings, I was overwhelmed, and found it GREAT!

I was in a lifetime chancing situation at that time, and decided, well, perhaps it is possible for me to make a very little living out of flamenco.
So I made as much time free as possible, and gave myself a few years to do so.

Till now, i had some performanses, and fill two days of giving lessons.

So you see, the foro helped me a lot!

( And I will not ever be narrowminded about American's sorry bout that...

.)

So, thanks everybody here!

Peter.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 13:09:24

Skai

Posts: 317
Joined: Sep. 12 2004

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

Practising with others is almost impossible where I am. But with the foro, I feel like I've found people with the same interest as me. I can interact, ask, watch, learn and enjoy here. This foro has taught me alot and given me lots of encouragement, not including the free audio/video downloads that sound professional.

_____________________________

Try some Enrique Iglesias for some great cante.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 13:22:41

antonio

Posts: 70
Joined: Jan. 10 2005
From: Portugal

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

Well, I feel the same as Skai.
Where I live it is also almost impossible to play with others but, thanks to this and other foruns you can get an answer to almost every question ( there is always someone who knows something more specific).
You can also get tons of information about almost everything from nails to strings ;wood to technique etc. IMO difficult to get all this in a small circle of friends (unless you live in Spain or Japan

)...
Sorry, I forgot the U.S.

Antonio

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 13:54:14

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

Practicing in a corner by yourself isn't going to get you anywhere. You need information, and that comes from study of music, printed materials, and interaction with other musicians. I have learned an incredible amount from the internet and tips from online musicians. That being said, it is certainly easy to waste a lot of time. Come here on your coffee breaks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 15:42:40

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Ditto the above. Of course we all need to practice, but I've learned a huge amount by hanging out here.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 18:34:40

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

By the way... I once went to lunch with several musicians. After the lunch, one of the musicians said to me: "Looks like XXXX spent too much time practicing and not enough working on his social skills."

Sir, I present this for your consideration. :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 18:45:22

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

Hi ichbintoll,

Well..I think that's a very narrow minded view on the world amigo...
I would have never developed an interest for Flamenco guitar again if it hadn't been for talking with other likeminded folk on the Internet, a lot of whom I now consider friends though we have never met personally.
The idea that sitting alone in one's bedroom practising endlessly sounds pretty sad to me, although that's just my own opinion.
Makes me think of a young guy telling his friends "Naw, I'm not coming to the disco tonight with you guys...gonna stay at home and practise my dance moves" LOL!

Lighten up a bit...unless you reckon your the hidden genius who is gonna come out of that bedroom in a few years and be the next Paco de Lucia.

Accept that other people enjoy Flamenco guitar as well, and are not your rivals, but just fellow enthusiasts.

As I said... lighten up, it's not that serious, for goodness sake!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 20:04:31

musicalgrant

Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

iIts very difficult, and there is so much to say......
But the best hint is:

Dont use your time to be in this forum here. Use the time to practise.
Oh ****... I have to practise now. bye.

Well OUCH!!!! wHAT ARE YOU ON???? DRUGS or Something like that?? LOL
When I was doing my Degree in Music with Flamenco as performance, I had no support what so ever!!! I learnt from books videos and lessons from Juan Martin when I could get bursaries to do it... And WE DID NOT HAVE THE FLAMENCO FORUM THEN!!!!!!

AND I WISH I HAD!!! I spent so much time practising the Bulerias and finding my own way of playing it, wondering if it was right or not. Only to find 5 years later that on this forum they too count it the way i do!!! Just think of the time i could of saved!!!!!

Where i live there are no flamenco guitarists!!!!!!

Where else are we to find feedback on our recording and efforts at this art form?

Anyhow a bit like Ron I gave up for a few years because of my Spondylosis which stops my hands working....braind to hand stops working ouch!!

But thanks to this forum i have been inspired to try again!!!!

Practice, and there is practice, 24/7 at practising doesnt make one a good flamenco guitarist..There is spirit and sould involved too!!! Or did you forget that part?

24/7 at practising can only lead to two things, Arthritis and a great big void!!!

Flamenco is about people and working together, not isolation locked in a bedroom...it is folk music lol

LOLOL Anyhow i better go and relax i have already practised for 6 hours today, and guess what found time to email forum members and offer support to their efforts at this flamenco art form...it is about giving too you know!!!!!!

There are the takers and the givers!!!!

Anyhow all the best in your practise!! How about uploading some of your efforts! I'd love to hear them

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 20:30:36

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

some of us has to stay in the bedroom. Practiceing,composing etc....
Im getting really sick of it..but what can i do? If i lived alone i could move to Stockholm,Gothenburg or Malmö. (swedish citys that´s big enough to have Dancing schools and flamenco). the girl i live with has no intresst in moving to biger citys, only smaller.
She want´s to live out in the bush. without foros like this and Todds i wouldn´t get any feedback on my playing nor discuss or read others opinions about it.

Henrik the loner

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 20:50:35

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to musicalgrant)

quote:

I gave up for a few years because of my Spondylosis which stops my hands working

Double ouch! I graduated from Med. School in Diagnostic Imaging, so I have seen a lot of it on CAT scans. I ended up with spinal surgery myself through poor posture, sitting in front of computers for 23 years! My sympathies.

Thanks for the vote of thanks but the original post was just a wind-up from Rene in Germany (Hallo dort) whom might just the first to be ejected from this forum for not taking us seriously, I really mean that folks

But hey, I can do that, wanna try me?

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 20:58:36

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to duende)

quote:

some of us has to stay in the bedroom

Wish I had a girlfriend like that

Sorry, couldn't resist.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 21:01:21

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

You have seen my looks.. lucky bastad arent i..

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 21:06:44

musicalgrant

Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

Wish I had a girlfriend like that Sorry, couldn't resist.

I did have a girlfriend like that and then I got engaged!!!!

LOL

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 21:18:24

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to duende)

quote:

You have seen my looks.. lucky bastad arent i..

Can't say, I haven't seen your girlfriend yet

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 21:19:41

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Escribano)

well to have a girlfriend at all

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 21:22:10

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to duende)

quote:

well to have a girlfriend at all

Fair enough, you've got me there

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 21:29:05

Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

Guys, I hate to throw a wet blanket over the fire as I really enjoy communicating with all you guys. I started my study of flamenco much as many of you-I was fortunate that I had a teacher from Spain for the first five years, but all I did was study his music on my own, and then when I got it down I did solo gigs for years before I started playing for dance and then singers. It was amazing how much I didn't know about flamenco even though I had been playing for years. A singer told me "Now your starting your flamenco education" I said what the heck have I been doing the last eight years? She said "playing the guitar"
It's true that today the learning tools available are better than ever-compas programs, dvd's, midi files etc, but flamenco is above all, a communication between participants, IMO. If you don't hang out with other guitarists, singers, and dancers, you are missing most of the fun. I know there are many people out there without those support people available, but if you are going to spend hours, days, months, years, playing flamenco guitar, you owe it to yourself to seek out others who you can play with and learn from. You owe yourself a trip to Spain to see the pros on their home turf, and if you are a guitarist who has payed your dues and learned compas, you owe yourself the thrill of playing for dancers. Reward yourselves for your efforts! Smell the roses and eat the fruit! End of rant.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 21:37:03

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

but the original post was just a wind-up from Rene in Germany

Ah!,
BTW is ichbintoll any relation to ichbineinberliner?

(ichbineinberliner for manys a year...und I spends all me Deuchmarks on ze schnapps und ze bier!)

LOL!

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 22:14:50

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Mark2)

quote:

owe yourself a trip to Spain to see the pros on their home turf

Spot on and an interesting thread considering the incisive original post

I've learnt more in Spain than from this forum, but it's not either/or and it won't always be that way.

The web is so new that we cannot yet measure it's effect on flamenco. Labels will appear that will only distribute new flamenco artists on the Web. Luthiers will become talked about and kick start their careers via forums like these. Fans will give money to poorer artists in Spain to attend classes and flourish. Strangers become friends and meet up in Spain to hang out at festivals and in the orange groves.

Budding guitarists can hear MP3s of artists they would never have heard of before, order them and maybe download the tabs to try and understand them a little better. Software metronomes bring order to chaos.

This will not replace the experience of the pena at 2:00am but rather enhance it or even save it in some cases.

Flamenco will not stay Andaluz or exclusive to those who go and live there, not with time.

Internet communites have their uses and their impact will be written in the history books.

(on re-reading, it sounds rather pompous but I'm sticking with it)

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 22:43:03

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

BTW is ichbintoll any relation to ichbineinberliner?

Steady Ron, you been at the sauce this viernes noche? I think it means "I am mad" but I don't speak German

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2005 22:47:12

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Mark2)

Well stated! I have been playing flamenco guitar for over 45 years and I am still learning. I began by playing for singers and dancers and solo work when the need was there. Playing accompaniment is truly fun. When I get together with friends and relatives we will sing, dance and play for hours and sometimes watch the sun rise.

My wife is trained in flamenco cante y baile so that is an advantage! I played professionally for some well known dancers from Spain over the years and still do as well as perform solo guitar on occasion at local flamenco shows.

I look at flamenco guitar in several ways. There is flamenco, which includes cante, and baile. Playing solo guitar or with other guitarists can be fun but gets tiring very soon, without the other essential elements of flamenco. Then there is the person who plays “flamenco like music”, which I feel is someone who plays guitar with flamenco inspired techniques or sounds. To me that is not flamenco.

I have had some great teachers who played accompaniment for many years. They taught me a lot about flamenco. Most flamenco guitar teachers and methods do not touch compas with enough emphasis, explain the history and relationships of the various palos, and have little concept how to teach or play accompaniment.

For each of us we like what we like and that is what is important. I cannot take away anyone enjoying himself/herself. But I still have my feelings about what flamenco is and is not.

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2005 0:11:32

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Escribano)

Hi Simon.

Ich bin toll means I am fun.

Peter

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2005 1:54:13

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to duende)

quote:

Im getting really sick of it..but what can i do? If i lived alone i could move to Stockholm,Gothenburg or Malmö. (swedish citys that´s big enough to have Dancing schools and flamenco). the girl i live with has no intresst in moving to biger citys, only smaller

Henrik,
How about considering a move to one of the rural villages close to Granada, like Anders or Simon?
"How do I earn a living?", I hear you ask..

Well, you are a qualified guitar teacher aren't you?

There are probably many younger folk there who want to learn Jazz/Pop?Metal styles as well and music theory and reading, and probably not too many teachers.

So you can nip up to Granada for teaching (and learning Flamenco) and your girlfriend will be happy in the quiet little village, although I'm sure once she starts to attend peñas & juergas, she'll probably become a Flamenco addict as well.

You could just rent something to begin with and see how it works out.
If it's not viable, then at least you'll have had, say a year in Andalucia as an extended working holiday.

Might be worth looking in to.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2005 9:25:38

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Ron.M)

sounds good. The problem is my girlfriend really hates flamenco.. maybe hate is a strong word but she realy doesn´t care about it.
Sorry about this mood im in. I do complain a lot

but i start to feel like this flamenco thing is just a waste of time. Not because it´s boring or i have a "bad" moment practicing. I feel i make progres. I make music. so that fine.
It´s just the isolation. To learn i nead others. Better than me, that knows the music and so on.
of course i can stay in my room practice technique for 10years and have chops like the devil
but what good would that do?? I feel that i nead dancers to reach the next level.
preferebly a singer but theres sure as hell ain´t nobody around here

Now im in an awful mood

im going for a walk. It´s a blue sky and sunny. I think i´ll bring Tomatito and Camarón for "walking music" They always cheer me up

Henrik

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2005 9:53:01

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to duende)

Henrik,
I have a scheme for you to use. It is tricky, but it could possibly work. It is important that you are very careful to execute it correctly, or it could backfire and make things even worse.

You need to save up a little cash for a vacation. The vaction has two and only two purposes: 1) there is a certain flamenco show you want to watch, and 2) to take the girlfriend to Andalucia on a romantic and beautiful trip!

You have to make everything perfect, incredibly romantic and make your girlfriend feel very special and loved in Spain. If you take her to the right places, she may fall in love with the scenery, especially if accompanied by memories of romance and happiness.

You only get to see one flamenco show, because it is her you are trying to sell on the idea of moving to Granada, not yourself. You have to go to at least one flamenco show, because otherwise she would get very suspicious.

What do you think?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2005 14:49:08

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: How to become a good Flamencogui... (in reply to Guest)

Sounds good to me

Got a buck or a thousand?

Honestly i don´t think she would like to move there but im sure she would LOVE a romantic
week or month in Andalucia. I wonder if she would like Sevilla. I would

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2005 16:47:51