RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling)

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KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo)

thanks for making that video rumbaking.

Although it is still hard for me to tell how your andalusian guitar actually sounds, I appreciate the effort. Sound quality varies so much with cameras these days. Many cameras these days can compress the sound so much that a mellow warm sounding guitar suddenly sounds like an explosive bright guitar with singing trebles. Videos can be very deceiving.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 20:23:16

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Man....kinda of brutal throwing me up against a couple of professional Flamenco guitarists from Spain.....I mean my playing is not remotely close to these guys.....

yeah, sorry about that, it was just the only videos I could find to illustrate a point at the time. It also demonstrates some of where I have been and the guitars that I have heard, touched, smelt, owned or played myself.

It was your comment about blowing away most flamenco guitars that rankled and I cannot see as objective. How would a $1000 guitar "blow away" the majority of the rest? Even Ruben appears to disagree with you on this.

The fundamental question remains as to whether are you demonstrating a $1000 guitar or did you pay significantly more for this model? That is the essence of this debate i.e. what one can buy in Canada for $1000 that is not at all bad, no?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 20:35:19

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Escribano)

Yeah...How much did you pay for the guitar, RumbaKing?

So we can all get an idea what such a guitar costs.

I know you used to be able to get the Yamaha for about $300-350?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 20:38:39

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

tread

Getting there Doit!

Better than "threat" anyway!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 21:09:47

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

rumbaking, if you have a decent microphone an audio-only recording might actually be more useful than a video. I am curious what the guitars really sound like

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 21:10:07

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

hey rumbaking, nice playing btw!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 21:20:27

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

I am curious what the guitars really sound like

Well, (according to Dr.Ruben) Paco de Lucia said...

"Andalusian Guitars are the very best I have seen and heard since long time ago. They have very sweet and sonorous timbric colors."

(But apparently Paco's management denied it and were considering legal action.)

That's all I know from the Web.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 21:20:50

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to KMMI77)

[Deleted by Admins]

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 21:22:21

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

i appreciate you taking the time to make these videos. i've been really curious about how these guitars really sound.

hope all is well with rumba momma!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 21:25:12

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

kinda of busy right now with my Mom in the hospital ...hopefully she will be out tomorrow or Thursday

Best wishes to your Mum and thanks for the info.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 21:40:04

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest)

Sorry if this won't be a nice comment but is drilling a hole in a guitar take it's value up $2k?

I did not want to write in this Ruben thread but...
I am SO surprise that these no name guitars sell for that much. I can get a hand-made luthier built guitar from 3 luthiers within 5 hours from driving from here in Canada and another one in the States for $3k. Just wild to put so much money on a shady guitar brand with unknown origins, for all we know it could be made by children in India although the net seem to show Mexican origin...

I do believe in buying with your ears and if the guitar sounds that good then fine. But as someone else said, it's Ruben's whole marketing approach that is my main problem.... with labels that say 'Spain" to make you believe it was made in Spain... so bad... just can't go there.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 22:07:40

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

I'm sure because of their marketing strategy there has been a lot of backlash and the prices are falling to more realistic levels. I predict within a couple years there will be a new company name and cosmetic changes to these guitars with a denial they ever had anything to do with an old company named Andalusia.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 23:05:32

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rumbaking

FYI....I have deleted my video because it appears my video recording simply doesn't capture what I am trying to share.....

Ah too bad I missed it.

Still, more than a few performing artists have said to me that their best live performance instrument is not their best recording instrument. That might have been the case in your video.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 23:07:00

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to KMMI77)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 22 2011 23:18:02

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

In Spain there used to be these signs in bars that read:

"Prohibido El Cante"

I guess the gitanos that went in those bars and sang even though the sign said no singing are also trollers.

LOL

My premise was that to really be able to distinguish between guitars you have to listen to the best guitars first as a bench mark of what is good and what is bad.

Last I checked, being a good aficionado is about being able to distinguish; Cante from baile, a guitar from a duck, or more importantly bad cante from good cante'. Or past that being able to distinguish the nuances of one singers voice from another or one great guitar makers guitar from another, while not putting either down.

The older guys and gals I've hung with told me that back in those days if you wanted to hear cante' the best thing to do was look for one of those signs, cause you knew that it meant there was singing in that locale.

Sorry for my trolling, but when you put up sign that says Prohibido El Trolling you can depend on some smarmy a**hole like me singing like a F888ing loro.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 0:09:55

Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

Since when does stating an opinion different to the original poster's count as trolling? Respect is key to this forum, but that doesn't mean we're about having threads where a particular view is stifled by default.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 0:27:49

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

I am truly sorry to the admin for my usage of veiled profanity.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 0:33:32

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

Everyone seems in total agreement in their dislike for this companies marketing style and a few people have a more personal beef with its main pitchman cool but I think that is what was trying to be avoided taking a detour down that path in this post. I'm sure as cRobson stated several times in other posts he would love an Anders guitar, if someone wants to insult Anders by offering him 739Euro shipping included for one of his beauties and can broker that deal cRobson will be all set lol.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 3:28:09

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Sean)

I wish that would happen. Again I am trying out all my options before I buy one, my Dad goes to Houston for work sometime before June (Was supposed to be in January) and if I haven't found a guitar by then (that I think is worth the purchase), I will go with the Navarro student or Concert because I know I can't be disappointed with that purchase.

I went to Ruben with the lowest exceptions of the guitars that he sells, expecting them to be worse than a Yamaha or my classical but reality was that they where actually pretty good. (the prices varying from 1 grand to 1500). However, this is only comparing them to the yamaha flamenco, alhambra 10c, 7f, my classical, rodriguez and cordoba (sp.) guitars which are all factory made.

Edit: And hey hey sean! If it helps the seller of an Anders guitar I will go up to 1500 dollars US.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 3:38:59

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

I wouldn't say you can't be disappointed with purchasing a Navarro student model, I'm pretty sure he personally only makes his top of the line models.
I personally think cocobolo is beautiful wood but for a bridge it's to heavy for a decent flamenco guitar and it needs to be glued on with epoxy, that will kill the bite and sound too classical.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 3:59:31

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Sean)

quote:

I personally think cocobolo is beautiful wood but for a bridge it's to heavy for a decent flamenco guitar and it needs to be glued on with epoxy, that will kill the bite and sound too classical.

Nah.....cocobolo glues just fine, where do fellas come up with this stuff? Cocobolo can make good bridges. Each flitch of wood is different, you have to know what to look and listen for.

The only thing wrong with CocoB. is that it is one of the most toxic guitar making woods to deal with. The dust is super nasty for some of us. I for one am so sensitized to it I stopped using it. It gives me terrible respiratory problems, other than that it's good wood.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 4:41:30

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

You mean hide glue works fine with cocobolo? That would seriously piss me off to find that out, I used it for back and sides on a classical once, glued it with the VERY recommended epoxy glue, the overpowering smell ruined the whole woodworking experience for me on that build. The only reason I never even considered using cocobolo wood again for anything was epoxy.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 6:50:24

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Sean)

First of all, never, ever use the term "build" in front of me. Besides being an assault on the English language, it makes me crazy raving mad enough to cut someone with a prison shiv. Please don't in my company refer to your guitar making project as a "build". Thanks.

Moving on, yes you can glue cocobolo with hot hide glue. Luthiers do it all the time. Do some tests. Your joinery work is what needs to be flawless and heating up the parts before you slather them with plenty of glue. Don't clean the joint with water or you will starve the joints of glue by washing it out. Wait til the glue gels and then remove it with a chisel.

Do some glue tests and then try to pry your parts apart. See what you come out with. But I'm not suggesting you glue YOUR parts, glue some wood together.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 7:01:35

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

quote:

Please don't in my company refer to your guitar making project as a "build". Thanks.

lol

That term is a bit ???

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 7:48:23

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

What about.... assemble, cast, compile, compose, contrive, engineer, erect, evolve, fabricate, fashion, fit together, forge, form, frame, jerry-build, knock together, make, manufacture, model, prefabricate, produce, put together, put up, raise, rear, reconstruct?

So many to choose from !

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 11:50:08

Mihkel

Posts: 12
Joined: Feb. 14 2011
From: Estonia

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

Hi cRobson

According to Rubens video, how come you get the guitar with raw material price or even less, or did I misunderstood something? Anyway Navarro is really good option IMO. I didn`t have chance to compare it with any great concert models but still happy with it. Here is bit more info and photos of my guitar

Greetings
Mihkel

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 15:51:34

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to KMMI77)

Assault on the English language? Art thou not a Yank Sir Steven lol

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 23 2011 22:37:23

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Sean)

Apologies in advance for the trolling.

I absolutely hate it when people call making a guitar a "build". It's incorrect English.

I began to dislike this when people started saying things like: "Oh yeah that plan is a good build." Guitar makers make guitars from scratch with pencil, plantilla outline, a ruler, a compass and a few other drawing tools. It's not a build, as if you can go buy a a guitar at Ikea and screw it together. It's a process and if you understand it you don't follow a plan, you are the plan.

Maybe that sounds arrogant to some people and if so too bad. See Stradivari had to develop his own forms and templates and any good well studied guitar maker, violin maker, bow maker etc. had to do the same thing by copying the teachers tools and templates. There is no such thing as a plan; a measured drawing is a set of data. In order to make an instrument from it you have to have the skill to interpret it and make it. It is not a "build" like it's some hobby, it is way of thinking in three dimensional form and conceptualizing a musical instrument beginning with a string.

The plan of a guitar is not a plan for a guitar, it's a plan for a box of wood. The guitar or cello or violin begins with a string, the guitar is string with a box of wood created around it. It's designed to take advantage of the energy from the string to make sound.

The guitar is not a box of wood with a set of strings attached to it. A guitar is a string with a box of wood to support it. Plans perpetuate the idea that a guitar is a hunk of bent wood. Once you get passed this basic fallacy the language and intentions in making a guitar come ever clearer.

When I get into a bigger shop I'm going to teach because I'm very frustrated with the level of discourse around the subject. I have one private student right now who I'm working with and I am having him draw his guitar rather than purchase a plan. In this way he will be liberated from having to follow someone else idea blindly. By drawing out the guitar you can learn why the proportions are laid out that way and you also learn how to 'read' other guitars you want to learn form.

So in long form, it drives me crazy to read so and so is doing a build. It's retarded language and retarded thinking.

So there, Yank on that.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 24 2011 0:47:28

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to estebanana)

Haha its alright now Estebanana, I think I made the point the thread was intended for. (I was just letting people know if they where to buy a factory brand for the same price go with the Andalusian.)

Sorry about freaking out earlier, I wanted the thread to stay on topic but theere really isn't anything more to discuss. So you have my apologies.

And yes I see what you mean with the guitar "build" statement. But they are just words and I think that they get the point across.

Has your private student built a guitar before? Or this his first guitar? If I had to make my first guitar with my own plans I think I would be extremely worried about the end product. But than again he has a teacher

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 24 2011 1:12:19

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12)

Dude, the Andelsusional is factory made guitar. Have you ever heard of the saying

"You drank the Koolaid"

My student has never built a guitar, but he will a make good guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 24 2011 2:40:37