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RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (no trolling)   You are logged in as Guest
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M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest

I firmly believe you won't regret it rumbaking, because a spanish, luthier guitar that has been made with good skills and experiences will shift you dramatically forward, much farther than any AG would. But I think you will have a problem selling it...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 12 2011 19:27:25
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.

Thi old one reminds me of AG with its head and type of rosette. Could have been inspired by Panormo, 1828



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 12 2011 20:12:13
 
rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.

After reading about the 'boca doble' I saw that it's an AG guitar. So I asked la Sonanta if they knew who the 'Spanish Luthiers' were or were from and that was the answer I got. As stated, this is the official statement from AG so who knows if it's true or not. The reason given is so weird.
My personal opinion on 'when clients asks who is making these guitars' would be a new point 1: because this is a guitar you are buying and clients want to know how made it. And that, probably 100% of the time, unless of course it's an AG then it's because we somehow want to steal the Caramilk secret.


Thank you for contacting La Sonanta.

We are only a distributor of the Andalusian guitars and the official statement of Andalusian Guitars themselves about the luthier of the AG guitars is:

The AG are made in Canary Island by Spanish luthier and one assistant, (what can we tell you as the distributor of the AG guitars is that the luthier of AG is of the same quality than Arcangel I mean on the same rank or status, but the name of maker is not given , because in the past many problems came as a result of this names issue and Paco gave his recommendation for Andalusian Guitars and not for any specific individual person because of that too, in order to avoid what have already happened many times. You know, when clients ask who is making these or those guitars and where etc. the reasons for their questions can be as follows:
1) only to do politics.(take advantage somehow)

2) to make a better financial offer to that particular luthier for another firm.(or to sell this information to the competitors, can be even Chinese market etc.I personally meet one that tried to buy this info for Yamaha from me, to duplicate high end guitars for 100 dollars each…and destroy the Spanish market etc.)
3) just out of harmless curiosity( this is 1% of people)you are of this kind of respectful people that just ask to know, with no intention to harm or take advantage, but unfortunately, this is the exception and not the rule, the other 99% falls is categories 1 or 2 or both!
so to really be focused in what’s important in a guitar, that is the amazing quality and the sound & art etc, AG choose to avoid potential problems, and Paco was in favour of this policy because it really eliminates many problems.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 12 2011 20:23:36
 
bursche

Posts: 1181
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to rogeliocan

quote:

1) only to do politics.(take advantage somehow)

2) to make a better financial offer to that particular luthier for another firm.(or to sell this information to the competitors, can be even Chinese market etc.I personally meet one that tried to buy this info for Yamaha from me, to duplicate high end guitars for 100 dollars each…and destroy the Spanish market etc.)
3) just out of harmless curiosity( this is 1% of people)you are of this kind of respectful people that just ask to know, with no intention to harm or take advantage, but unfortunately, this is the exception and not the rule, the other 99% falls is categories 1 or 2 or both!
so to really be focused in what’s important in a guitar, that is the amazing quality and the sound & art etc, AG choose to avoid potential problems, and Paco was in favour of this policy because it really eliminates many problems.


Prof. Dr. Ruben copy 'n pasted exactly the same statement here before.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 12 2011 23:40:52
 
Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

Ha ha. This is getting funny.


Yes it is!

So...are you going to post the picture, or are you going to take the position of "fake" umbridge? ie...

"I don't see why I should have to justify myself. If you don't believe me then don't."

Or the position of.... " I don't have the guitar with me ATM. It's being checked over by a Luthier friend."

Or...

"My Digital Camera has developed a fault and I have it in with the shop to see if it can be repaired." etc etc.

At the end of the day, it's easy enough to do.

Click. Download to computer. Upload to Forum.

And then it settles the issue once and for all.

cheers,

Ron


This is for you Ron....and the other guy who thinks I'm making this up.

I think you owe me an apology now.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 12 2011 23:55:02
 
Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.

I don't get it a master luthier the status of Arcangel Fernandez? Do they use Fernandez's last name or is it just implied because it could be Arcangel Bellucci, Renato's evil twin brother.
If this is a luthier of such high status why would he be hiding behind a company named Adalusion and why is a master luthier from Spain of such high regard building such extremely untraditional lattice braced flamenco guitars?
Why the heck is this master luthier being paid so damn little they don't want him getting any offers from another firm?
If only Yamaha learned how to make guitars from Adalusional, Spain would fall to its knees, not to mention what could happen worldwide with some Chinese espionage. I now know why they keep this luthier locked away nameless in a dungeon wearing an iron mask, it's for the protection of the free world.
I can't wait for the movie to come out.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 12 2011 23:55:05
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo

Now you earned my interest Yojimbo, at least we now know that in the worst case you communicate with the owner of the guitar. At the best case it's yours, which now is I think possible as well. So good chance you're telling truth.

Ok then, I'm impressed. So, why a guy like you needs to defend this suspicious and funny brand that makes ugly and grave-sounding guitars? Get your guitar and visit your good friend Ruben and make a comparison with this one. I think I know what would be the result. I would like to see someone else trying these two guitars one by one.. and their faces when Prof.Ruben is not around

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 0:21:00
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo

That horrendous large golpeador must be damping it's sound quite a lot cause it occupies almost full surface of the soundboard.. Nothing against it, I just prefer only small, local golpeadoritos just to cover necessary golpexposed areas. Ultimately unnecessary to have the area under strings covered all over.

How the beauty sings, if I may humbly ask?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 0:27:25
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to bursche

yeah, I knew I have already read it somewhere!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 0:29:22
 
Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.

quote:

ORIGINAL: M.S.A.

That horrendous large golpeador must be damping it's sound quite a lot cause it occupies almost full surface of the soundboard.. Nothing against it, I just prefer only small, local golpeadoritos just to cover necessary golpexposed areas. Ultimately unnecessary to have the area under strings covered all over.

How the beauty sings, if I may humbly ask?


I can't make it sing - no skill - but I'm working on it. Ruben has played it and he calls it a jewel.

Learning to play is my new hobby but I'm sure you can well imagine that much time and effort is required before I will post anything from me here.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 0:36:28
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Sean

[Deleted by Admins]
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 3:03:54
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest

Probably replied my own post by mistake. But I am not experiencing any anxiety, anger or different kind of emotional discomfort. Why do you think so??

How is this page 11 the best advertising for AG?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 3:13:56
 
Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.

quote:

This is for you Ron....and the other guy who thinks I'm making this up.

I think you owe me an apology now.


I definitely was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for what it's worth. It's just that Prof R has employed such tactics before I believe...

If nothing more I must say he is definitely very enthusiastic and determined.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 3:33:27
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo

quote:

This is for you Ron....and the other guy who thinks I'm making this up.

I think you owe me an apology now.


OK, Yojumbo. I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions.

It's just that Ruben's friends have been on here before promoting these guitars.


cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 9:55:13
 
Adam

Posts: 1155
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Philadelphia

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to rogeliocan

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogeliocan
The AG are made in Canary Island by Spanish luthier and one assistant, (what can we tell you as the distributor of the AG guitars is that the luthier of AG is of the same quality than Arcangel I mean on the same rank or status, but the name of maker is not given , because in the past many problems came as a result of this names issue and Paco gave his recommendation for Andalusian Guitars and not for any specific individual person because of that too, in order to avoid what have already happened many times.


Jesus, that's a brutal sentence!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 10:38:23
 
rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest

quote:

Paradoxically this 11 page thread is probably the best advertising Andalusian ever got.


I agree, this thread contains so much positive comments, clears up so many unknowns, and gives me such a feeling of confidence, not to mention the high level of integrity the company has that I'm thinking of buying not 1 but 10 guitars before they go up in value as I am sure everybody reading it will rush out to buy one.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 12:17:31
 
Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to rogeliocan

Indeed,

I would say that this forum is part of the reason I would not consider buying an AG guitar. I was just kind of turned off by the threads about R and his AGs on this forum back before I joined when I was curious about them. For that I am truly thankful to the people here who did some digging.

It is the duty of a flamenco forum with so many knowledgeable players and builders to debunk the enigma/hype around these guitars. We need a once and for all blind test with high quality audio equipment, a high quality guitar to compare the AG against, and a good player to make both of the guitars shine.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 12:45:14
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to rogeliocan

quote:

The AG are made in Canary Island


When is someone going to point out that the Canary islands are not in Andalucia?

Sean - I applaud your post. To suggest that someone with the ability of Arcangel is hidden away anonymously on the canaries to build cheap lattice guitars is a storyline worthy of the evil villian in a 60's James bond plot. Maybe he is kept inside a volcano covered with a fake lake. Maybe there is a secret plan to wipe out Conde Hermanos and sell Andalusian guitars for.....100 trillion dollars! Mwah ha ha ha ha !!!



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 13:26:29
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Pimientito

LOL, a good one

I thought there was no doubt they were not andalusian in origin and to me they look latinamerican or they can also be chinese. This Canary Island story could have been provided to lasonanta as cover for even worse possible revelation - that they originate in some slave factory in China. That would be making awesome money for the re-seller here in Europe for Andelusional prices. That's what I would like to find out to satisfy my curiosity, where they are really from.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 13:40:26
 
GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.

quote:

I thought there was no doubt they were not andalusian in origin ...


Perhaps they were made in Andulasia, the fantasyland country that the Disney princess in the movie "Enchanted" came from?





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 15:31:52
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: nealf
Paradoxically this 11 page thread is probably the best advertising Andalusian ever got.


Agree totally. With the pictures posted here, they should put them on their homepage. Its great advertisment for sure!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 15:41:24
 
estebanana

Posts: 8324
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Adam

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogeliocan
The AG are made in Canary Island by Spanish luthier and one assistant, (what can we tell you as the distributor of the AG guitars is that the luthier of AG is of the same quality than Arcangel I mean on the same rank or status, but the name of maker is not given , because in the past many problems came as a result of this names issue and Paco gave his recommendation for Andalusian Guitars and not for any specific individual person because of that too, in order to avoid what have already happened many times.


Nothing brutal, he did use three commas! It's a glorious run on sentence, but he left an open parenthesis......it's like sex with out an orgasm.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 15:46:11
 
rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Harry

quote:


It is the duty of a flamenco forum with so many knowledgeable players and builders to debunk the enigma/hype around these guitars.


Yes. Like a consumer guide. Be aware of what you are getting here.

And that James Bond comment and picture were right on and funny.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 15:51:30
 
Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogeliocan
The AG are made in Canary Island by Spanish luthier and one assistant, (what can we tell you as the distributor of the AG guitars is that the luthier of AG is of the same quality than Arcangel I mean on the same rank or status, but the name of maker is not given , because in the past many problems came as a result of this names issue and Paco gave his recommendation for Andalusian Guitars and not for any specific individual person because of that too, in order to avoid what have already happened many times.


Nothing brutal, he did use three commas! It's a glorious run on sentence, but he left an open parenthesis......it's like sex with out an orgasm.


I don't think it's right to make fun of people for whom english is obviously not their first language.

But on the other hand, doing so makes some feel superior - are you one of those?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 16:22:56
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to rogeliocan

Exact and spot on. The reason I am so uncompromising with them. No mercy to fake delusional guitars!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 16:24:02
 
Yojimbo

Posts: 176
Joined: Feb. 7 2011
From: Toronto, Canada

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.

quote:

ORIGINAL: M.S.A.

Exact and spot on. The reason I am so uncompromising with them. No mercy to fake delusional guitars!


So you need to feel superior by making fun of other people.

That's pretty sad actually.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 16:37:37
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to Yojimbo

Yojimbo, does it really mean I am making fun from somebody if I am uncompromising in my personal position toward this funny and illegitimate, deceptive guitar-making brand??? Apart from that, my reply was for rogeliocan as a reaction and identification with his statement.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 16:50:28
 
cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to M.S.A.

MSA at least try to make a clever insult towards these guitars, everyone uses the same "Delusional Guitars", "Andelusional Guitars", and"Andalusian Guitars are made from *insert fantasy place here*". I admit it was amusing at first, but now it's just tedious and obnoxious.

Seriously guys? Just shutup. You guys are like savages in this thread, just look at how you turned on Yojimbo because he has a conde guitar and is interested in the Andalusian Guitars. You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

Please close this thread
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 16:56:43
 
M.S.A.

Posts: 493
Joined: Mar. 10 2009
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12

have me arrested Sheriff!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 17:04:52
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1918
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: "Andalusian" Guitars (... (in reply to cRobson12

http://www.tradetang.com/for-sale/China-Spring-Starsun-CG400S-Solid-Spruce-TOP-Acoustic-Guitar-Free-Shipping-/100378-1495984.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 13 2011 17:06:12
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