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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

Thank God for the BBC.. 

To spread the word of genuine Flamenco...

The "World of Music" programme goes out all over the World and has been taken up by a new and equally incompetent presenter..

They mainly play African and South American music, but last night after months of nothing on Flamenco....

They came up with this gem....

That's it, BBC....spread the gospel.....well done.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00d5vrh/World_Of_Music_29_01_2011


cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2011 19:49:24
 
Munin

 

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M

Well unless I am missing something, he doesn't really say that this is supposed to be "genuine flamenco" or whatever, right? I mean...it's obviously not that but I've heard a lot of more offensive stuff being passed off as flamenco in mainstream media...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2011 7:06:39
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Munin

No, but he does say "Oriental Flamenco"...from Cairo.

WTF why?

There is a friggin' WEALTH of great (Andalucian style) Flamenco by fantastic artists out there.
Why not play an example of that?

They don't play Taiwanese Bluegrass, do they?

I'm just sick of hearing the word "Flamenco" or "Flamenco-style" being bandied around, here, there and everywhere to describe music that has nothing at all to do with it.

IMO these guys set themselves up as "World Music" experts and really all they are doing is playing stuff that they've come across and is to their own taste and simply reading the notes that came with the CD.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2011 8:22:03
 
changue

 

Posts: 187
Joined: Aug. 31 2010
From: London

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M

Greetings Ron - greetings one and all. I'm new here and I will quickly blurt out that I'm finding the forum remarkably helpful with Operation Twang.

You're dead right about that moronic BBC thing. I had the misfortune to hear it going out and recoiled in agony. I may even have gone back to R4 in disgust. Not only does it misrepresent flamenco it is devoid of any musical value at all so you have to wonder what the process is of making these playlists. If they just wanted to nod at goings on in Tahrir square they could have given us a bit of Om Kalthoum or Farid el Atrache or something a bit classy. Dear oh dear etc...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2011 9:37:17
 
Arash

Posts: 4462
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

No, but he does say "Oriental Flamenco"...from Cairo.

WTF why?



this is not only because BBC is stupid, but also because there are many fakemencos in our area (middle east, arab states, iran, etc.), mixing Ottmar crap with some oriental sounds and call it oriental flamenco..... so this problem is not only in europe, US, etc. but also in orient!
most people love this ****. simple as that.

there was a concert in iran last year ( i don't want to mention names ), titled flamenco, and a guitarist played some totally wrong rasgueados extremely aggressive, and some oriental scales noodling with a pic..... and people loved it, standing ovations, etc.....must have been over thousand people..... i just left the concert after the first half....
of course we have good flamenco guitarists, and some who combine oriental music with real flamenco ......but the same fakemenco phenomen also exists there, heavily

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2011 10:40:48
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M

I can see how that is a problem when people call any homegrown "flamenco".

In the orient differenciation seems not to be the most common thing anyway.
In Iran, eventhough people being mad about cars, they still don´t know what "ps" ( horsepower ) is ( not even clerks of new cars ), let alone specifics like torque.
There is only little passion for detail in existance. As to be seen with lacking attention for foreign terms to be spelled or used in the original way. "Class" becomes "kelass", "stress" becomes "estress", drums are being named "jazz", cars become "machine", rubber becomes "lastic". "O" is pronounced as "U" ( "emperatur"; Rome as "Ruhm") etc. and when it is about writing with latin letters about every "U" will be written as "oo", as it must be looking so nicely American.

The least have heard of the Beatles, not to think of terms like "flamenco" and lesser yet of what that´s supposed to be.

And the 10% population who lives abroad could care less about educating fellow men when they visit their homeland.

From there the latest undertaking of a popular artist who calles herself "Googoosh" ( see the "oooo"s ) can´t be praised enough, I think.
Eventhough I don´t appreciate her cheezy music, neither used to take for real her alleged love for countrymen ( seeing the outrageous concert ticket prices she likes to inquire from her fellow ex-pats ), her recent initiatve without doubt has been a giant favour to her country.
She lounched a new TV channel ( with the help of BBC, I believe ) named "Manoto2", with a vastly informative program in the way of National Geographics TV. A source of wordly information, and desperately required.

As I am sure that she could had never financed such a project, much of kudus to the BBC. That British broadcasting institution which I admire as maybe the best and possibly most investigative in the world anyway, and of which I am a bit dissapointed to now hear of in this very thread, that they must be suffering under the Pisa generation too meanwhile. ( Quite like all formerly demanding media in Germany as well, besides.)

As we are familiar with from the west, available info won´t be meaning corresponding use of it in the same time. And in the way the average Iranian mainly seems to chose his internet ( circular joke mails / downloading rap crap ) and TV consumption ( soap operas ), "Manoto2" with its documentaries on sociology, anthropology, history and prehistory, geography, technology and wildlife will only attract little at first, yet remains the best thinkable introduction nonetheless.

Man; I sure hope BBC won´t go the way of German states TV channels!
Those for the most have adapted themselves to the low-brow level of private broadcasters and such foolish strategy has led to a true medial catastrophy.

Germany is being under sorts of a steadily encreasing mental BSE pandemic disease.
Bye Goethe, Schoppenhauer and Reich!

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2011 12:12:16
 
Adam

Posts: 1155
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Philadelphia

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M

ha!! It's a rumba version of one of the main melodies from "Enta Omri," by the legendary Egyptian singer Umm Kulthum. Quite a beautiful song (if you can stick around for the entire hour+ long performance!), and his version is... well, it's interesting. It's not great art or anything but as this stuff goes, it's fun enough. If you want a good instrumental version of Enta Omri, there's a violinist out there who does the best one for my money:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=159983&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

(He may or may not be my grandfather.)

But yeah, it's not flamenco, "oriental flamenco" is a thing that doesn't exist, and these are all things which a BBC world music presenter should really know.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2011 20:01:53
 
Arash

Posts: 4462
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ruphus

manoto2 is extremely popular.
my dad came back from iran and said that everybody is watching manoto now.

and i even didn't know what manoto is till last week

then i watched it through satelite.
the problem is that they always repeat the same documentaries over and over again. i don't know how often they change the program.

--
german TV, yeah, meanwhile a catastrophy. specially those not regulated by public law. full of ****. i never watch TV here. just some news.

all i want to see, i download from internet.
like documentaries, etc...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2011 20:21:37
 
Arash

Posts: 4462
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M

anyway, i personally prefer to hear persian when i am in "persian" mood, and flamenco, when in flamenco mood.......not so much mixing the styles..


persian "cante" and setar



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2011 20:28:30
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Arash

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

manoto2 is extremely popular.
my dad came back from iran and said that everybody is watching manoto now.


From what I have wittnessed with families I visited, they would zap away as soon as an occasional documentary appeared, always seeking for movies, soap operas or hiphop / schmaltzy-music channels.
It should be great if your dad´s observation is representative for average consumer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

the problem is that they always repeat the same documentaries over and over again. i don't know how often they change the program.


Right on!
On the one hand repetition seems to be common with all specialized channels. As I suppose due to limited ressource / aquisition budget. From there others like National Geographic are looping the program as well, replacing individual films in the batch by new ones every other time.
Manoto2 however seems to overdoing this, especially considering the frequent interruptions by trailers and ( apparently self-made ) info clips.

I tried contacting Googoosh, pointing out that useless and annoying kind of program stretching; and also crtisized the horrible speakers in Farsi, who staccato along like propaganda rap on high voltage. Especially one of them with his continuous machine gun voicing.
I asked her whether she could tell these people to listen to the original comments first and see how reasonably phrased / relaxed commenting works.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

german TV, yeah, meanwhile a catastrophy. specially those not regulated by public law. full of ****. i never watch TV here. just some news.

all i want to see, i download from internet.
like documentaries, etc...


A true desaster. Unfortunately with states TV degenerating too.
Aside from a very few like "Terra-X" ( often times great material there!) or "Auslandsjournal" hardly any docus being broadcasted anymore. Instead all the time either cooking series or dummy opera. With the interaction of a steadily lesser educated audience watching themselves-alike acting on TV, a cycle pulling down common sense towards delirium ever faster.
A medial perpetuum mobile of faint.

Just as if we weren´t awaiting drastic shifts through climate changes, and as if there weren´t 150 species extincting daily. As if there weren´t the biggest coups ever on menkind and nature going on. Clearing of states properties and natural ressources by more and more boundless mafia structures.

With the media response to reality like ...
Like driving on the wrong side of the highway and in place of stopping the car, switching off the lights.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2011 11:35:03
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ruphus




cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2011 11:50:42
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus
In the orient differenciation seems not to be the most common thing anyway.


Nothing to do with orient, its just a normal thing to pronounce or spell foreign words in your own language. Kaiser, Joghurt, or even Handy, a word that has a completely different meaning in English than what most Germans think (cell phone).

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2011 12:23:49
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to XXX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

Nothing to do with orient, its just a normal thing to pronounce or spell foreign words in your own language. Kaiser, Joghurt, or even Handy, a word that has a completely different meaning in English than what most Germans think (cell phone).


It has a whole lot to do with it.
I wouldn´t had mentioned above example if the loss in transition wasn´t unusually high.
To go with your example on cell phones: In Iran they are called just "mobile", not only making a noun of it, but reserving a general term for a single item.

Such is very different in consideration, compared to introducing own idioms like "handy".
- Which besides is being said to origin from Swabian as: "Handie ka Kabel?"

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2011 13:54:10
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus
In Iran they are called just "mobile", not only making a noun of it, but reserving a general term for a single item.


I tell you another one: in Turkey they call it pocket phone (probably because you cn wear it in a pocket). And these oriental folk sometimes leave out the "phone" too, calling it just "pocket", just like the English like to cut it short too by saying just mobile for mobile phone. Because everybody knows what is meant if someone says "call me on my mobile/pocket".

Does this beef you have against middle easter folk have any reasoning or history? You like to complain alot about them.

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2011 15:16:45
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to XXX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

Does this beef you have against middle easter folk have any reasoning or history? You like to complain alot about them.


Good question.

Having been occupied with observing subjectivity and with ways of how to try approaching objectivity I have "a beef" with arbitrayness and irrationality.

In the western premisse towards tolerance after WWII it was emphasized that cultures and opinions were to be kind of untouchable.
A superficial idea that contradicted what I observed of the practical world since child hood.

Tolerating principles of thinking that either endanger, suppress or harm fellow men and fellow beings is contra productive to the initial idea. Tolerating dogma of intolerance only supports the latter.

The subjectivity in central Europe is already driving me crazy, let alone the one in Near East and Asia.
Unlike what western school says, first systematical attempts towards objectivity and equal rights seem not to have occured in ancient Greek, but in the orient. However, those fragile beginnings were destroyed by the insanity of Alexander "the Great". Since then Near Eastern philosophy seems to have delt little to nothing with the weakness of methexis and ways towards objectivity. Instead it has been vastly occupied with discourse on mythology, which does everything but exploring about entity.
To name it in a short: What won´t hound entity is no philosophy.

Due to a great number of kingdoms in Europe and the exhausting wars among them, Middle Age potentates figured that they had to find ways of negotiating, which again required pragmatism, the perception and consideration of external perspective. Which again supported corresponding quest and philosophy. This is why Europe has an edge on logic and systematical seeking for objectivity; and it also is the reason for why Europe has seen the scientifical lead, eventhough it once started out for a good part on the fundaments of Arabian research translated by monks.

In Near East however the quest for entity stagnated and the stagnation is being preserved by mentality that roots in the simplicity of superstition ( comfort of thoughtlessness ). With the lack of pragmatism, reign of superstition and consequential ignorance resulting into endless mistreatment of fellow men and creatures. Common injustice and fanatism.

That is why the Orient is being distanced from secularism or from just reforms like say of the Catholic Church which about 200 years ago stopped requesting the death of infidels, or finally two years ago decided to accept evolution as wordly fact.

Subjectivity is the background for resistant ignorance and cruelty; for dismiss of nature and the torturing of animals with ease ( although yet not nearly the unspeakable way like common in the Far East ).

Aside of people stoned for their sexual life ( whilst lax pursue of actual criminals ) and lots of other daily misconceptions, I know of endless suffering of fellow beings and whole landscapes cluttered with garbage. Landscapes that you could hardly walk without stepping into nails or splinters and wildlife almost extinct ( with yet 2 million hunting licences emitted yearly for ignorant macho sports who couldn´t even place a killing shoot for their lives ). Needlessly so ( not that you thought it was economically caused ), just as with a sheer incredible mentality of routingly cheating and stealing like you´ll hardly find anywhere else. - Or explosion of population to almost triple within 3 decades for obsolete traditions.

The described circumstances might be sounding politically incorrect and it defies the PC that I have been brought up with, but it is the ugly truth.
Of the believe that it only can be tackled what won´t be repressed, I name things as they occure.

Yes, I have a gripe with harboured subjectivity and with what it produces.
The Orient is in desperate need of wordly information and modernisation of educational institutions. The catching up with many centuries of lag.
Withholding facts and what people might consider PC will only prolong the suffering in orthodox surroundness.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2011 17:31:02
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ruphus

A guy i have coincidentally met once said: the dumb people are equally distributed among the countries. As you say yourself, other cultures than the European have contributed to the field of science. Back in time, when people in Europe lived on trees, maybe a close minded Arab or middle easterner said the same things about "the Germans". I hope not.

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2011 19:15:39
 
M.S.A.

 

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[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 28 2011 23:21:54
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2011 23:02:30
 
Arash

Posts: 4462
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to XXX

i personally have nothing against constructive critisism towards oriental people and their countries in general.

in fact, i have many things to critisize about my own country or fellow countrymen myself and do that all the time in political and other discussions.

but most of what i hear from "foreigners" or even many iranians who left iran 30 years ago, are either based on some subjective experiences or prejudices or manipulation through media or simply lack of first hand information.

talking about things like science activity, etc.... i don't think that people have any idea how things are really developing in some of those countries. regardless of other political, religious and other issues.

we should stick by facts in these scientific issues instead of personal opinions and impressions

http://www.science-metrix.com/30years-Paper.pdf

this is what really happened in the past 30 years.

of course, this is just the development and doesn't mean that Iran and Turkey are now leading the scientific world or something.
But it shows the growth factor compared to other countries

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2011 23:51:51
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M

"Back in time, when people in Europe lived on trees, ..."
That´s what I used to state when trying to bring down Germans from high horses ( those to whom it applied and of which it had considerably more decades ago ). And used to riducule them with the example of a German throne that was lettered with a word that turned out to be meaning "chair".
The past 20 years however revealed that the old European cultures weren´t remotely as retarded than thought of in the period of ~ 20 to 40 years ago. They were already pretty good at metallwork etc. and the old Germans for instance managed to beat the Romans not just by barbarism.
( Apropos metallwork: Did you know that part of Vikinger´s war campaigns success had been due to their swords, whichs special alloy used to be brought over from Persia? - Isn´t that just as surprising as the fact that thier success abroad was mainly due to civlized action like settling and trading? ... And that they never wore horns on their helmets. - Sorry for straying away.)

"A guy i have coincidentally met once said: the dumb people are equally distributed among the countries."
In consideration of what? Intelligence, common knowledge or reason?
While such a statement will account only for intelligence, it must be considered that intelligence does not mean much ( to me ). As it can account for reason just as it can account for simple slickness, which again depends on the measure of actual recognition ( resulting in empathy, cooperation and constructive being ), which again can differ significantly with average mentality among cultures.
( Which is why I would prefer to live with the empathical mentality of an indigene tribe on south-pacific island Tanna rather than with indigene folks on Papa New Guinea, eventhough both being at same level of intelligence; and prefer any of the two examples to living with e.g. high-teched Japanese mentality.)

"but most of what i hear from "foreigners" or even many iranians who left iran 30 years ago, are either based on some subjective experiences or prejudices or manipulation through media or simply lack of first hand information."

My experience is that in Germany at least I have meet so many people who think highly of Iranians. They consider them to be people with a great culture, and also many times I was told that one´s best friend was an Iranian ex-pat. There were even more who said that they would love to visit the country.
In fact I find it remarkable how stable the sympathy seems to be despite all the archaic news.

"we should stick by facts in these scientific issues instead of personal opinions and impressions"

I found that file very interesting to read, but do not think that the contents disprove my personal observations or preceding factual base.

#
First of all, it must be considered that the scientifical situation listed relates to progress in relation to the individual past; not to common ( international ) state of science. ( In sight of relative progress, I am sure you know of the illiterate percentage of 3 decades ago.) Considering the international situation the "30years paper" respects the quantity of released scientifical papers. Something that will certainly indicate activity, but not simultaneously quality in a linear proportion.

#
Secondly, if you have a look at what subjects made the most space in Iran, it shows that it is out of all nuclear chemistry and -physics.
Something least suited to bring advance to the people, and exactly useless for supporting reason among people.
Especially for a place that should have no need for polluting the country with nuclear waste, whilst having ideal conditions for solar technology. So much even that it could count with profits from exporting electric energy, if it had invested into coherent means.

#
Further, some mentionings in that paper do not match empirics on-site. Like with the exert that I attached below.
Animal science:
You will be hard pressed to find a vet who actually understands too much about zoology. I have visited a number of veterinarians and talked to them. What the average vet has learned is how to exploit cattle and poultry to max. They by pharmaceutical means help keeping the animals alive under unworthy conditions. ( I have not even seen them warning from overdosing while they hand out chemicals to farmers.) Whereas about natural demand and care they know little to nothing.
What I have heard of them instead is giving out locally common advice. ( Which e.g. for dogs is: For a good watch dog, cut off his ears. That will make him aggressive. And inclose it in a small, dark place over the day, releasing it only at night.)

#
Psychology:
On TV there exist sort of "psychology shows", where you see several psychologists commenting individual cases and desease.
What I found by watching such a couple of times was outdated speciality from western faculty of about 40 years ago, mixed with typical bias and moralistic cliche.
There certainly exist much more up-dated specialists, but it must be wondered if they are meant to be too popular.

It must be taken into consideration that we are about average mentality, hence how whatsoever scientifical level and reason is actually spread among people.

A supporting fact like that in Iran for instance the tradition of medics is still alive, with internationally highly acknowledged physicists and researchers at home as well as abroad, does not mean that the average Iranian doc will be a good one. Unfortunately, not at all.

What we are looking for is the empirical condition among people. The cognitive situation with ethics and knowledge, empathy and association.

And from there I sincerely, wholeheartedly sympathize with your statement: "in fact, i have many things to critisize about my own country or fellow countrymen myself and do that all the time in political and other discussions."

It has to be forgotten about Cyrus and Hafez for now. Instead seen what´s up today.
Illuminate ignorance, cruelty and desastrous ethics. Try ending that casualness. Make the people feel uncomfortable with inuman and detouched patterns and wanting for a better.
Have that dozing acquaintance grab his nephew´s ear for having betrayed the neighbours.
Making yourself unpopular if must be.

Making away with that darn hypocrisy and replace it through cognitive association, as much as can. Telling of mathematically proven efficiency of cooperation, and educating on intellectual retardedness of craftyness and indifference.
That will be love to folks.
-
( For lack of time, I have to let out a response regarding international entanglement in Orient´s New Age lag.)
-

Because as written below in the excerpt: "Iranian´s quality of life may increase, if the knowledge that is being produced can be harnessed in astute and constructive ways."

If the cognitive potential was switched from status quo to pragmatism, the country could stop mineral oil production altogether and blossom like hardly any other place.

#
There are archaeologic treasures in the ground that couldn´t be retrieved by a host of thousands within centuries of time.
Investing into that could generate tourism for an attraction absolutely unique worldwide.

( There also used to be a stunning wildlife once, but I doubt it could ever be recovering.)

#
There are plains a couple times the size of Germany, of which a good part is waiting to be planted with hemp, which should trigger a textile industry of extreme high quality product, also oil and high-quality paper production. The hemp then raising the scarce water household over time. With the plains after a couple of years of completely chemically and addition free hemp fertilization being ready for other agricultural products. ( Fruits there develope top notch aroma and are in high demand internationally.)

#
There exists great fallow talent that could find its application in industry of intelligent goods as with computer science or circuits.

( Officials around 3 years ago announced the goal of becoming first in science in the Near East.
An appealing idea if it will be understood that educational staff in the institutions who made career for opportunistic reasons must be replaced by personnel who stands out in the subject.)

Ruphus



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2011 13:51:34
 
Harry

Posts: 390
Joined: Jun. 24 2010
From: Montreal, Canada

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to M.S.A.

I totally agree with you on this and I have also experienced it with friends. I have noticed some friends have zero tolerance for flamenco. It's very frustrating when you play some material for friends and they interrupt to ask a question about something. Clearly they have zero feel for this, and these are people who are musicians themselves!

On the other hand, there are friends who have supported me more and actually said hey bring your guitar over and I play solea, rondena, maybe a tango but never even an alegrias. Nothing too festive, but later at night after dinner, talking and drinks are over, people get it.

I started playing flamenco because I was miserable (!) and it helped me a great deal. I don't expect the masses to appreciate real flamenco, but that should not stop us from trying to educate the people around us as much as possible by exposing them to the real thing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2011 14:00:50
 
Arash

Posts: 4462
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ruphus

Ruphus thanks for taking the time and reading the paper.

I will read your post tonight.
My english is not perfect, so i have to concentrate on such long posts in english to understand them fully and be able to answer them adequately.

Also not so much in the mood for such discussions right now.
I have to practice Rio de la Miel first

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2011 14:36:45
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Harry

quote:

I started playing flamenco because I was miserable (!) and it helped me a great deal.

What do you mean here? Sounds familiar for me

A quote from Pedro Bacan
quote:

"Flamenco fusion is done with making money in mind...that which sounds familiar is more easily swallowed. Flamenco is being adapted to the masses when the opposite should be true...the masses should be educated so flamenco can reach them..."


_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2011 14:46:43
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

Ruphus thanks for taking the time and reading the paper.

I will read your post tonight.
My english is not perfect, so i have to concentrate on such long posts in english to understand them fully and be able to answer them adequately.

Also not so much in the mood for such discussions right now.
I have to practice Rio de la Miel first


Okey-dokey! :O)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2011 14:46:48
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Arash

quote:

I have to practice Rio de la Miel first

And what about rincones de lola? I hope that i can hear (and enjoy) your guitar ...

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2011 14:53:25
 
Arash

Posts: 4462
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to mezzo

quote:

ORIGINAL: mezzo

quote:

I have to practice Rio de la Miel first

And what about rincones de lola? I hope that i can hear (and enjoy) your guitar ...


yeah, practicing that one too (though, i have to admit that i just started 1 week ago, so i have to hurry)

but i am not sure about the enjoying part

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2011 14:58:24
 
Arash

Posts: 4462
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M

While we are at BBC + Iran , there is a nice documentary from an Iranian BBC Reporter - living in London - who went to Iran and made a Journey from North to South.
It is total 4 hours and called "Taste of Iran"

This is part one:

http://www.megavideo.com/?d=0DQXCRE0

i try to find the rest

note: megaupload is sometimes slow. if so, try again few hours later

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2011 14:59:44
 
Rain

Posts: 475
Joined: Jul. 7 2005
 

RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Arash

quote:

but most of what i hear from "foreigners" or even many iranians who left iran 30 years ago, are either based on some subjective experiences or prejudices or manipulation through media or simply lack of first hand information


I agree with you fully. As a Turkish-American living in America, I have seen such a strong will of Turkish immigrants who are mostly from rural parts of Turkey wanting so eagerly to denounce their identity and embrace their new false American one. They will change their names to American one's, yet they can hardly speak english. When you say Merhaba(hello) they will respond to you with a suspicious look and say Hi. I don't know if this is a product of some bias subjective experience as you state from their country of origin or just a self-loathing.

I believe the world and it's inhabitants are getting dumber despite the fact that knowledge is much more accessible today than it was when In my twenties. I also believe that are our leaders use this to their advantage. How else who they pass ridiculous policies that are detriment to the world. Just yesterday I watched a politician and it was not the first, express his fear of Islamist and their next attack; mind you he did say Terrorist but rather Islamist. Why? because he his simply brainwashing the idiots in America to equating Islam with Terrorist. I'm an Islamist, I am Muslim, but I am not a terrorist nor do I believe in any form of terrorism. What great war was started by the hands and minds of an Islamist nation? Is it the Korean war, or WWI orWWII or was it the Korean war.

Subjectivity is the background for resistant ignorance and cruelty; for dismiss of nature and the torturing of animals with ease ( although yet not nearly the unspeakable way like common in the Far East ).

Well said Ruphus.

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Free Palestine
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2011 15:36:37
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