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Thank God for the BBC..
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Arash
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
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 RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ron.M
No, but he does say "Oriental Flamenco"...from Cairo.
WTF why?
this is not only because BBC is stupid, but also because there are many fakemencos in our area (middle east, arab states, iran, etc.), mixing Ottmar crap with some oriental sounds and call it oriental flamenco..... so this problem is not only in europe, US, etc. but also in orient!
most people love this ****. simple as that.
there was a concert in iran last year ( i don't want to mention names ), titled flamenco, and a guitarist played some totally wrong rasgueados extremely aggressive, and some oriental scales noodling with a pic..... and people loved it, standing ovations, etc.....must have been over thousand people..... i just left the concert after the first half....
of course we have good flamenco guitarists, and some who combine oriental music with real flamenco ......but the same fakemenco phenomen also exists there, heavily
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Date Feb. 1 2011 10:40:48
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M)
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I can see how that is a problem when people call any homegrown "flamenco".
In the orient differenciation seems not to be the most common thing anyway.
In Iran, eventhough people being mad about cars, they still don´t know what "ps" ( horsepower ) is ( not even clerks of new cars ), let alone specifics like torque.
There is only little passion for detail in existance. As to be seen with lacking attention for foreign terms to be spelled or used in the original way. "Class" becomes "kelass", "stress" becomes "estress", drums are being named "jazz", cars become "machine", rubber becomes "lastic". "O" is pronounced as "U" ( "emperatur"; Rome as "Ruhm") etc. and when it is about writing with latin letters about every "U" will be written as "oo", as it must be looking so nicely American.
The least have heard of the Beatles, not to think of terms like "flamenco" and lesser yet of what that´s supposed to be.
And the 10% population who lives abroad could care less about educating fellow men when they visit their homeland.
From there the latest undertaking of a popular artist who calles herself "Googoosh" ( see the "oooo"s  ) can´t be praised enough, I think.
Eventhough I don´t appreciate her cheezy music, neither used to take for real her alleged love for countrymen ( seeing the outrageous concert ticket prices she likes to inquire from her fellow ex-pats ), her recent initiatve without doubt has been a giant favour to her country.
She lounched a new TV channel ( with the help of BBC, I believe ) named "Manoto2", with a vastly informative program in the way of National Geographics TV. A source of wordly information, and desperately required.
As I am sure that she could had never financed such a project, much of kudus to the BBC. That British broadcasting institution which I admire as maybe the best and possibly most investigative in the world anyway, and of which I am a bit dissapointed to now hear of in this very thread, that they must be suffering under the Pisa generation too meanwhile. ( Quite like all formerly demanding media in Germany as well, besides.)
As we are familiar with from the west, available info won´t be meaning corresponding use of it in the same time. And in the way the average Iranian mainly seems to chose his internet ( circular joke mails / downloading rap crap ) and TV consumption ( soap operas ), "Manoto2" with its documentaries on sociology, anthropology, history and prehistory, geography, technology and wildlife will only attract little at first, yet remains the best thinkable introduction nonetheless.
Man; I sure hope BBC won´t go the way of German states TV channels!
Those for the most have adapted themselves to the low-brow level of private broadcasters and such foolish strategy has led to a true medial catastrophy.
Germany is being under sorts of a steadily encreasing mental BSE pandemic disease.
Bye Goethe, Schoppenhauer and Reich! 
Ruphus
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Date Feb. 1 2011 12:12:16
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Arash)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Arash
manoto2 is extremely popular.
my dad came back from iran and said that everybody is watching manoto now.
From what I have wittnessed with families I visited, they would zap away as soon as an occasional documentary appeared, always seeking for movies, soap operas or hiphop / schmaltzy-music channels.
It should be great if your dad´s observation is representative for average consumer.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Arash
the problem is that they always repeat the same documentaries over and over again. i don't know how often they change the program.
Right on!
On the one hand repetition seems to be common with all specialized channels. As I suppose due to limited ressource / aquisition budget. From there others like National Geographic are looping the program as well, replacing individual films in the batch by new ones every other time.
Manoto2 however seems to overdoing this, especially considering the frequent interruptions by trailers and ( apparently self-made ) info clips.
I tried contacting Googoosh, pointing out that useless and annoying kind of program stretching; and also crtisized the horrible speakers in Farsi, who staccato along like propaganda rap on high voltage. Especially one of them with his continuous machine gun voicing.
I asked her whether she could tell these people to listen to the original comments first and see how reasonably phrased / relaxed commenting works.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Arash
german TV, yeah, meanwhile a catastrophy. specially those not regulated by public law. full of ****. i never watch TV here. just some news.
all i want to see, i download from internet.
like documentaries, etc...
A true desaster. Unfortunately with states TV degenerating too.
Aside from a very few like "Terra-X" ( often times great material there!) or "Auslandsjournal" hardly any docus being broadcasted anymore. Instead all the time either cooking series or dummy opera. With the interaction of a steadily lesser educated audience watching themselves-alike acting on TV, a cycle pulling down common sense towards delirium ever faster.
A medial perpetuum mobile of faint.
Just as if we weren´t awaiting drastic shifts through climate changes, and as if there weren´t 150 species extincting daily. As if there weren´t the biggest coups ever on menkind and nature going on. Clearing of states properties and natural ressources by more and more boundless mafia structures.
With the media response to reality like ...
Like driving on the wrong side of the highway and in place of stopping the car, switching off the lights.
Ruphus
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Date Feb. 2 2011 11:35:03
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to XXX)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Deniz
Does this beef you have against middle easter folk have any reasoning or history? You like to complain alot about them.
Good question.
Having been occupied with observing subjectivity and with ways of how to try approaching objectivity I have "a beef" with arbitrayness and irrationality.
In the western premisse towards tolerance after WWII it was emphasized that cultures and opinions were to be kind of untouchable.
A superficial idea that contradicted what I observed of the practical world since child hood.
Tolerating principles of thinking that either endanger, suppress or harm fellow men and fellow beings is contra productive to the initial idea. Tolerating dogma of intolerance only supports the latter.
The subjectivity in central Europe is already driving me crazy, let alone the one in Near East and Asia.
Unlike what western school says, first systematical attempts towards objectivity and equal rights seem not to have occured in ancient Greek, but in the orient. However, those fragile beginnings were destroyed by the insanity of Alexander "the Great". Since then Near Eastern philosophy seems to have delt little to nothing with the weakness of methexis and ways towards objectivity. Instead it has been vastly occupied with discourse on mythology, which does everything but exploring about entity.
To name it in a short: What won´t hound entity is no philosophy.
Due to a great number of kingdoms in Europe and the exhausting wars among them, Middle Age potentates figured that they had to find ways of negotiating, which again required pragmatism, the perception and consideration of external perspective. Which again supported corresponding quest and philosophy. This is why Europe has an edge on logic and systematical seeking for objectivity; and it also is the reason for why Europe has seen the scientifical lead, eventhough it once started out for a good part on the fundaments of Arabian research translated by monks.
In Near East however the quest for entity stagnated and the stagnation is being preserved by mentality that roots in the simplicity of superstition ( comfort of thoughtlessness ). With the lack of pragmatism, reign of superstition and consequential ignorance resulting into endless mistreatment of fellow men and creatures. Common injustice and fanatism.
That is why the Orient is being distanced from secularism or from just reforms like say of the Catholic Church which about 200 years ago stopped requesting the death of infidels, or finally two years ago decided to accept evolution as wordly fact.
Subjectivity is the background for resistant ignorance and cruelty; for dismiss of nature and the torturing of animals with ease ( although yet not nearly the unspeakable way like common in the Far East ).
Aside of people stoned for their sexual life ( whilst lax pursue of actual criminals ) and lots of other daily misconceptions, I know of endless suffering of fellow beings and whole landscapes cluttered with garbage. Landscapes that you could hardly walk without stepping into nails or splinters and wildlife almost extinct ( with yet 2 million hunting licences emitted yearly for ignorant macho sports who couldn´t even place a killing shoot for their lives ). Needlessly so ( not that you thought it was economically caused ), just as with a sheer incredible mentality of routingly cheating and stealing like you´ll hardly find anywhere else. - Or explosion of population to almost triple within 3 decades for obsolete traditions.
The described circumstances might be sounding politically incorrect and it defies the PC that I have been brought up with, but it is the ugly truth.
Of the believe that it only can be tackled what won´t be repressed, I name things as they occure.
Yes, I have a gripe with harboured subjectivity and with what it produces.
The Orient is in desperate need of wordly information and modernisation of educational institutions. The catching up with many centuries of lag.
Withholding facts and what people might consider PC will only prolong the suffering in orthodox surroundness.
Ruphus
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Date Feb. 2 2011 17:31:02
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Thank God for the BBC.. (in reply to Ron.M)
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"Back in time, when people in Europe lived on trees, ..."
That´s what I used to state when trying to bring down Germans from high horses ( those to whom it applied and of which it had considerably more decades ago ). And used to riducule them with the example of a German throne that was lettered with a word that turned out to be meaning "chair".
The past 20 years however revealed that the old European cultures weren´t remotely as retarded than thought of in the period of ~ 20 to 40 years ago. They were already pretty good at metallwork etc. and the old Germans for instance managed to beat the Romans not just by barbarism.
( Apropos metallwork: Did you know that part of Vikinger´s war campaigns success had been due to their swords, whichs special alloy used to be brought over from Persia? - Isn´t that just as surprising as the fact that thier success abroad was mainly due to civlized action like settling and trading? ... And that they never wore horns on their helmets. - Sorry for straying away.)
"A guy i have coincidentally met once said: the dumb people are equally distributed among the countries."
In consideration of what? Intelligence, common knowledge or reason?
While such a statement will account only for intelligence, it must be considered that intelligence does not mean much ( to me ). As it can account for reason just as it can account for simple slickness, which again depends on the measure of actual recognition ( resulting in empathy, cooperation and constructive being ), which again can differ significantly with average mentality among cultures.
( Which is why I would prefer to live with the empathical mentality of an indigene tribe on south-pacific island Tanna rather than with indigene folks on Papa New Guinea, eventhough both being at same level of intelligence; and prefer any of the two examples to living with e.g. high-teched Japanese mentality.)
"but most of what i hear from "foreigners" or even many iranians who left iran 30 years ago, are either based on some subjective experiences or prejudices or manipulation through media or simply lack of first hand information."
My experience is that in Germany at least I have meet so many people who think highly of Iranians. They consider them to be people with a great culture, and also many times I was told that one´s best friend was an Iranian ex-pat. There were even more who said that they would love to visit the country.
In fact I find it remarkable how stable the sympathy seems to be despite all the archaic news.
"we should stick by facts in these scientific issues instead of personal opinions and impressions"
I found that file very interesting to read, but do not think that the contents disprove my personal observations or preceding factual base.
#
First of all, it must be considered that the scientifical situation listed relates to progress in relation to the individual past; not to common ( international ) state of science. ( In sight of relative progress, I am sure you know of the illiterate percentage of 3 decades ago.) Considering the international situation the "30years paper" respects the quantity of released scientifical papers. Something that will certainly indicate activity, but not simultaneously quality in a linear proportion.
#
Secondly, if you have a look at what subjects made the most space in Iran, it shows that it is out of all nuclear chemistry and -physics.
Something least suited to bring advance to the people, and exactly useless for supporting reason among people.
Especially for a place that should have no need for polluting the country with nuclear waste, whilst having ideal conditions for solar technology. So much even that it could count with profits from exporting electric energy, if it had invested into coherent means.
#
Further, some mentionings in that paper do not match empirics on-site. Like with the exert that I attached below.
Animal science:
You will be hard pressed to find a vet who actually understands too much about zoology. I have visited a number of veterinarians and talked to them. What the average vet has learned is how to exploit cattle and poultry to max. They by pharmaceutical means help keeping the animals alive under unworthy conditions. ( I have not even seen them warning from overdosing while they hand out chemicals to farmers.) Whereas about natural demand and care they know little to nothing.
What I have heard of them instead is giving out locally common advice. ( Which e.g. for dogs is: For a good watch dog, cut off his ears. That will make him aggressive. And inclose it in a small, dark place over the day, releasing it only at night.)
#
Psychology:
On TV there exist sort of "psychology shows", where you see several psychologists commenting individual cases and desease.
What I found by watching such a couple of times was outdated speciality from western faculty of about 40 years ago, mixed with typical bias and moralistic cliche.
There certainly exist much more up-dated specialists, but it must be wondered if they are meant to be too popular.
It must be taken into consideration that we are about average mentality, hence how whatsoever scientifical level and reason is actually spread among people.
A supporting fact like that in Iran for instance the tradition of medics is still alive, with internationally highly acknowledged physicists and researchers at home as well as abroad, does not mean that the average Iranian doc will be a good one. Unfortunately, not at all.
What we are looking for is the empirical condition among people. The cognitive situation with ethics and knowledge, empathy and association.
And from there I sincerely, wholeheartedly sympathize with your statement: "in fact, i have many things to critisize about my own country or fellow countrymen myself and do that all the time in political and other discussions."
It has to be forgotten about Cyrus and Hafez for now. Instead seen what´s up today.
Illuminate ignorance, cruelty and desastrous ethics. Try ending that casualness. Make the people feel uncomfortable with inuman and detouched patterns and wanting for a better.
Have that dozing acquaintance grab his nephew´s ear for having betrayed the neighbours.
Making yourself unpopular if must be.
Making away with that darn hypocrisy and replace it through cognitive association, as much as can. Telling of mathematically proven efficiency of cooperation, and educating on intellectual retardedness of craftyness and indifference.
That will be love to folks.
-
( For lack of time, I have to let out a response regarding international entanglement in Orient´s New Age lag.)
-
Because as written below in the excerpt: "Iranian´s quality of life may increase, if the knowledge that is being produced can be harnessed in astute and constructive ways."
If the cognitive potential was switched from status quo to pragmatism, the country could stop mineral oil production altogether and blossom like hardly any other place.
#
There are archaeologic treasures in the ground that couldn´t be retrieved by a host of thousands within centuries of time.
Investing into that could generate tourism for an attraction absolutely unique worldwide.
( There also used to be a stunning wildlife once, but I doubt it could ever be recovering.)
#
There are plains a couple times the size of Germany, of which a good part is waiting to be planted with hemp, which should trigger a textile industry of extreme high quality product, also oil and high-quality paper production. The hemp then raising the scarce water household over time. With the plains after a couple of years of completely chemically and addition free hemp fertilization being ready for other agricultural products. ( Fruits there develope top notch aroma and are in high demand internationally.)
#
There exists great fallow talent that could find its application in industry of intelligent goods as with computer science or circuits.
( Officials around 3 years ago announced the goal of becoming first in science in the Near East.
An appealing idea if it will be understood that educational staff in the institutions who made career for opportunistic reasons must be replaced by personnel who stands out in the subject.)
Ruphus
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Date Feb. 3 2011 13:51:34
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