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New fustero tuners finally had arrived
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kozz
Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL
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 RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to beno)
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quote:
kozz!
that's really beautiful! are those on the Navarro? solid also means it to be more in weight? or it's not noticeable at all?
Thanks Beno,
Yip they are on the Navarro.
With solid I ment there's absolutely no gap when tuning....which I had with tuning G....it feels really comfortably tuning the guitar.
The weight I havent noticed....but that's something I don't understand quite yet in-a-way.
Some guitars have a real nice big headstock, some don't....so if weight would be that important, why not make the headstock a little smaller, it could make up for the weight.
But will one notice the few grams? 
The most important thing to me is that makes you feel confident when tuning. Possibly there are tuneres out there less expensive which would do the same, I dont know.
The wheels are bigger, so a movement of the tuning knob is more precise.
To be honest, I thought is was a bit overdone spending money on tuners, but it really makes a difference and is worth it, another lesson learnt .
In fact, if you spent quite some money on a guitar, why not take out one of the factors which make a guitar feel right.
Ofcourse I cant speak for the luthiers themselves, and I assume they put one good tuners, but price-wise it could be more interesting to put on just-good-tuners, to reduce the price. At least thats what I thought, and luthiers putting on expensive tuners,, was not reasonable to me, untill now.
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Date Jan. 16 2011 20:49:21
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to kozz)
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Many in the nylon fraction don´t expect much of a difference with tuners.
In fact, as I believe, differences not seldomly are being levelled out due to uneven drill holes in the guitars head, which will have machine heads under performing
( Which is why I believe that every luthier should be using a special jig for drilling to provide accuracy.)
My experience with the average tuners ( like Schallers ), as well as with top of the line serial production ( like Gotoh premiums ) and boutique specimens ( like with Graf tuners ) however is that performance can be of such a difference that it can definitly be of sense to invest.
Naturally, it also depends on the user´s demand.
As I found out, the majority isn´t really too meticulous about tuning, under estimating the actual effect of fine tuning, let alone the one of tempered one.
Fact however is that the subtle adjustment on the individual string, while appearing neglectable, will effect a great deal in concern of the overall sound with all strings well tweaked.
Unless accurately standard tuned, better even accurately tempered, you won´t know what your guitar actually can do. Yet then, it will deliver all it has in terms of lushness, separation, and harmony anyway. ... And all the inspiration it can give.
A whole other thing!
In the inexpensive shelve I want to recommend tuners named "Reliance Dixon" to you. If you can´t find them on the internet ( I couldn´t ) maybe you can ask Amalio Burguet where he gets them from.
These work quite well, and seem to be really outstanding in terms of price-to-quality ratio.
For who is willing to knight his beloved guitar with boutique gear however, I strongly recommend to check out for a new brand from Klaus Scheller ( Germany ).
Here is how I tried to describe these once on another forum.
quote:
I would like to introduce a new brand of tuners made by Klaus Scheller in Germany.
They have been mounted ony my Rodriguez estudio and turned out to be quite what I used to have in mind.
Working with enlightening precision and making things appear as if the micro-tweaking range of the string had been extended. Even with the thick low E there is so much reserve given that one can tweak meticulously to an exact point in a very relaxed way.
So much so that I even thought the transmission to be greater than 1:16 which however it isn´t.
The gear works absolutely evenly, without whatsoever fluctuation, no slightest tacking or breaking lose.
And while tuning in into micro level being so easy things stay in tune reliably in the same time.
Ruphus
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Date Jan. 17 2011 13:28:14
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: New fustero tuners finally had a... (in reply to jshelton5040)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jshelton5040
You're correct about the drill guide. It's way more important than the quality of the tuners.
When Gotoh's first were available in the US I was buying them for about $10/set for the premium grade. Now they cost around $60 or more and there's a company in Taiwan making a comparable tuner for about $10. Unless they're solid gold which wouldn't work well anyway there is no reason for the inflated price of most tuners. Look at them, there's nothing more than a worm, gear, post, roller, button and plate. There are innumerable products far more complicated and requiring much more precision that sell for almost nothing.
I am of the impression that the vast majority has not experienced significant differences with tuners, as I suppose, not even too many among luthiers.
But that does not mean that there coincidentally weren´t significant differences.
Actually, I used to believe the same thing; considering the boutique stuff as useless and over priced sort of jewelry. ( With the latter opinion still in place, in sight of most boutique manufacturers´pricings.)
But one needs to mount a set like the above on a guitar first to see how performance can matter, and in how far.
Especially, if appreciating the sonority of fine tuning. ( Yep, got the Peterson strobe Flip, and can match it to completely halt when tuning by fork.)
Tweaking with mechanics like the Schellers is really different from other tuners that I have used.
Quoting myself again:
quote:
It is almost as if the pegs were knobs of an electronic device; that immediate is the tweaking.
With a strobe at work it in fact it feels as if you were turning a button of it.
It seems that there are relevant aspects of materials and the way of bearings used, but more so distinct shape of worm and gear, which determine the way tuners function.
The latter apparently not optimally understood by common manufacturers ( including boutique shops ).
As a specialist in mapping and manufactory of gear in his own shop, Scheller while selecting for himself a guitar in the shop of his friend luthier Stefan Zander, routinely felt the imperfection with usual machine heads; the slipping, stucking and breaking lose.
As he told me, that was the reason why he went into the matter and started working out himself after feedback on visual design with luthiers Zander and Matthias Damman. Initially for personal interest, then been urged to put out more.
Clearing an imperfection which though not always prominent, at the latest noticable the moment that you get rid of it.
Familiar with well functioning, soft, without onset, turning tuners, like more often so to be found with acoustic guitars ( steelers ), I have always been imagening comparable functionality for nylon guitars.
That is why I like to recommend these tuners for who likes precision tuning in a really seamless and comfortable way. ( Without having to hold one´s breath about whether pinpointing or having to take another approach / having missed out on the minuscule nudge.)
With 146 gr they ought to come in relatively light-weight, BTW.
Ruphus
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Date Jan. 17 2011 18:04:20
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