RE: New vs Old

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RE: New vs Old

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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: New vs Old (in reply to kuqi)

quote:

Ron - please accept my appologies - in hindsight I think you were making an English joke regarding buying the Anders?

That's OK...no need to apologise, kuqi....I'm just an old sarcastic bastard anyway, so it's my own fault if I'm misunderstood.

quote:

I'll now go back under the stone from which I crawled out from, as requested.

Naw...a bit too severe IMO...the more appropriate English expression would be..

"It's OK...I'll get me coat."

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 15:46:27

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

Let me also say that if Tom B did modify the plan in some way and it's not stated on the plan,

The top plan is as close as I could get it to the very mm or inches described on the plan. This includes the fan brace system with all of it tapers shapes and sizes; including the little wood inserts between the braces near the bottom. None of this is my modification. Both the Miguel Rodriguez top plan and the Reyes style have exact measurements to the best of my ability.

And I might add that Manuel Reyes has a tremendous education on how to adjust his fan brace systems to fit each player's style. This 2003 model is but a small portion of his knowledge on how to make guitars. I enjoyed a friends copy of an '87 Reyes which was very different in its detailed fan brace placement.

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Tom Blackshear Guitar maker

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 15:52:01

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron,
Not too put to fine a point on this, but there are a lot of things that guitar players and "civilians" non guitar makers, don't understand about the way guitar makers think about the business and the art and craft. There are a lot of guitar makers who could read what I said and sit back and agree, but they will not in public because they like to remain non confrontational in their relationships with players and other builders. I'm not that way and it's rare in this business. My argument is not about whether it's correct to make copies or not make copies, my argument is focused on the ethical limit of how much you can use another makers name to promote yourself. I urge you to give a closer reading to my argument and create your own analogies in other business where the use of someone else name to promote a product or art work might seem dubious or challenge an ethical standard.

Also, I really do have a friend who lives in Lahore Pakistan and his name is Afdash, though he is neither a guitar maker or a terrorist.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 16:25:43

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

Did someone say oud? Because I repair and restore ouds in addition to guitars.

( commercial message from the restorer of ouds who does not associate his own original work or sell it by signification off the name of masters like the Nahat family )

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 16:32:28

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

From this old bowl that needed to be cleaned and relined with paper strips....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 16:35:37

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

To this cleaned bowl with new strips replaced, and the original braces refitted to receive a new top.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 16:37:50

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

Happy oud player with his restored Egyptian baby.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 16:41:47

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

There I advertised myself without invoking any players name or signifying off of any master builder. All on the merits of my own very fine work. If you have any questions about how I did the restoration I will be happy to answer them.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 16:46:51

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

Beautiful work Stephen. I love the sound of an oud.
Let's get back to this kind of stuff please

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 16:53:10

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: New vs Old (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

To this cleaned bowl with new strips replaced, and the original braces refitted to receive a new top.

Ah, so Anders (NB: non-commercial citation of name) isn't the only luthier here who also makes boats! Beautiful!

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 17:02:16

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: New vs Old (in reply to estebanana)

Looks nice. Is there also a "Reyes" plan for ouds?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 17:12:57

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Estevan)

quote:

Ah, so Anders (NB: non-commercial citation of name) isn't the only luthier here who also makes boats! Beautiful!

Than you very much kind sir. In fact I do not make boats, but I can varnish boats as that is how I put myself though school. My guitar shop happens to be located on a fine estuary and a borrowed sailing craft of 26 feet is available for a short sail into San Francisco bay should you ever fancy to undertake the journey to my modest taller. And rest gentle sir assured, that if the multi-talented Anders (prop) can build the boat I can certainly varnish it for you. Please inquire via private correspondence for quotes on our boat building collaborations.

In your humble service,
Estebanana

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 17:16:48

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

I've been on this forum for almost 2 years, and the person that's made an impression on me the most as "advertising" is Anders.

deteresa1, What is it that gives you the impression that I´m the most advertising luthier her?

Forget about the DVD please. It has nothing to do with me and its been explained 100 times. What else?
The news from the workshop I took away because someone found it to be to much advertising. This I accepted. So gone it was.
So what else?

Take a look at your own posts during the last couple of month. Maybe you´ll find out that you yourself advertize a lot more than I do? Did I ever point that out? Did I ever post anything about you, like you just posted about me? ¡¡¡¡¡NO I DIDNT!!!! Do you want me to start doing so? (You get what you give)

Im f*cking tired of being told that I´m the commercial one here.

Prd1: I would have told you about bridge straps if I was in the mood. I´ve build more than 70 guitars with bridge straps and have tested a lot of things about them. There´s a photo of a bracing system I made on my blog as well as on this thread with a bridgestrap. But you asked TomB and not all of us, so´you´ll have to live with what you get from TomB

Nice oud Stephen. I love it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 17:19:05

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

You build boats Anders? We should talk about that. I worked in a boat yard as a varnisher/ ships carpenter in the mid 1990's when I was in grad school. Where did you work? And what kinds of things did you do? It sounds very interesting to have worked near the sea in Spain.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 17:23:50

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

Ugh, I don't really want to talk about it. I didn't mean to offend because I do respect what you are doing and I DON'T think you've crossed any line. I have advertised here a lot too. Please keep doing what you are doing and I'm checking your blog and admiring your work regularly. I was just making the point that Tom's actions don't stick in my head as over-advertising his plan.

Sorry.

I don't remember asking anybody about a bridge strap?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 17:32:30

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

I´ve been accused of being the commercial guy here various times during very little time and I´m REALLY pissed off. So I shoot against anyone going on with that.

Besides I´ve NEVER said that TomB was overadvertizing his plan. If it was only that. TomB has killed I dont know how many interesting luthier discussions here during the last 2 1/2 years with his stupid plan and his stupid attitude.

Sorry estebanana, but I´m not in the mood for talking about boats right now.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 17:51:05

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

I think I know exactly why you are pissed Anders. I think it is because some people around here are lazy intellectually and don't think deeply enough into the ethical issues. And I again back up what you said a few pages back about how ethics are taken more seriously in Spain between makers. it seems I too have been told I'm crazy for knowing this. Some of the brand newbie builders need to think about how long others have been working, committed and thinking about these issues; some of the seasoned giants need to take up less air space.

And I am sorry you are also upset with these issues, perhaps it will get better soon.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 18:10:19

prd1

Posts: 206
Joined: Jul. 11 2007

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Prd1: I would have told you about bridge straps if I was in the mood. I´ve build more than 70 guitars with bridge straps and have tested a lot of things about them. There´s a photo of a bracing system I made on my blog as well as on this thread with a bridgestrap. But you asked TomB and not all of us, so´you´ll have to live with what you get from TomB

I questioned the bridge strap on the plan - no offense to Tom for drawing it as per the original that he examined - I'm intersested in his opinions...and those of anyone else who has experimented in this area.

Your opinions are equally as valid, I look forward to hearing your views - but your moods? behave yourself!!!!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 18:38:45

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

If my mood has to be in a certain way in order to answer you or to you give my thoughts or experience, I just better leave you with TomB´s version.

Maybe you´d get a more response if you started a new thread. Things easily gets lost in threads like this one.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 18:44:34

prd1

Posts: 206
Joined: Jul. 11 2007

RE: New vs Old (in reply to XXX)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

Looks nice. Is there also a "Reyes" plan for ouds?

I agree - it looks beautiful.

Reyes Oud????? I'm not aware of one - what are you refering to?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 18:51:41

prd1

Posts: 206
Joined: Jul. 11 2007

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

If my mood has to be in a certain way in order to answer you or to you give my thoughts or experience, I just better leave you with TomB´s version.

No Problem - enjoy your Saturday evening vino, all luthiers deserve one!!!!

When/if your mood sees fit, i'd appeciate your input, in the meantime any constructive viewpoints regarding a bridge strap would be more than welcome.

Chers

Peter

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Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music - Angela Monet

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 19:04:52

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: New vs Old (in reply to prd1)

Ah well...

If there's one thing I've learned from this thread is that Guitar builders do as much bitchin' as guitarists.

I wonder who made the very first string instruments ever?

I mean everywhere in the world seems to have an example of a box with strings stretched over it...

I wonder if it was a frustrated musician who thought.."Hey, I need to build something so I can express this idea in my head that's driving me crazy.."...or some ordinary guy who tied a piece of gut to a coconut or something and thought, "Hey if I pull this thing real tight, it makes a really cool sound if you pull the gut and let go!"... and became an immediate success at stone-age cave parties and raves.

Thus the "professional" musician was born.

(Available for chants, weddings, solstices and sacrifices....good repertoire, reasonable rates...)

And if someone had a particulary great sounding coconut, then the other coconuteros would take note and try to copy the size and shape of the cool coconut to get that sound, while another maker accidentally found that a coconut with a hole in the bottom sounded ultra cool and his became the ipod of the age, except for those who preferred the Traditional coconut sound and dismissed it as pure rubbish....

All interesting stuff IMO.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 19:51:02

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: New vs Old (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

some people around here are lazy intellectually

You mean like American cowboys and **** kickers?

quote:

except for those who preferred the Traditional coconut sound.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 20:06:55

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: New vs Old (in reply to Ron.M)

Ole to the Oud Pics !

2 of my persian friends in Germany play Oud, Tar, Setar, etc.

And some more in Iran.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2011 22:29:56

nhills

Posts: 230
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: West Des Moines, IA USA

RE: New vs Old (in reply to RobJe)

A bit off-topic, but speaking of old...
Check out
http://cgi.ebay.com/MARIO-ESCUDERO-rare-61-orig-stereo-Flamenco-guitar-EXC-/280625654520?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item415697aaf8#ht_573wt_907

A great album at a great price of Escudero playing a Hauser (!!)
Norman

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 5 2011 1:54:54