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RE: The Bullfight Bloody "UPSET"
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Leñador
Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles
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 RE: The Bullfight Bloody "UPSET... (in reply to changue)
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My only thought on the matter, which I'm sure no one cares but It makes me feel good to put it out there.
It was actually a big thing where I grew up in LA too, my friends families would make trips down to T.J. for big fights and believe it or not there were even underground fights RIGHT IN L.A.
Just because something is ingrained in a culture doesn't make it okay.
On that, just because something is brutal doesn't mean it's bad. That's just my belief, I eat meat, killing animals to eat them is brutal, even if it's quick, but I do it, I think it's fine. If you think brutal=bad you should be a vegetarian, because the meat business is brutal.
Concerning bullfighting specifically, I don't care lol. It doesn't evoke much emotion from me one way or the other.l.....
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 13 2014 19:38:27
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: The Bullfight Bloody "UPSET... (in reply to changue)
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Lenny, Withinity,
What you are saying is correct and in the same time though leaving the inhumane conditions in place.
Becoming desentized will not mean that sadistic background is being neutralized. A spectator who is not feeling with a tortured creature, still is being aware about what he would not be wanting to be going through himself while watching it happening to others. The bizarre pleasure of perfidity is still fully in place.
Good that you mention gladiator games. They used to serve the very same background that is given in bullfighting. And these games from a distinct point of view in fact serve perfectly for the opposite example of civilisation.
Quoting myself from a foregone thread:
quote:
Then again, there has been historical example that indicates civility as culturally conditioned.
The ancient Greeks refused to visit gladiator games the Romans had brought to them. They would disdain the cruelty, perceive no delight through sadistic voyeurism, even when the Romans then tried luring them in with time off ( and snacks, I think ) for visiting the games, and yet when Romans finally forced them to go.
And finally there is the relevance of actually ongoing circumstances in contrast to the arbitrariness of whatever ( ignorant) viewing.
If spectators´classifying of third´s pain as neglectable would actually render pain void, such games could be held without brutal consequences to the victim.
However and unfortunately, this is not being the case and the harm staying undiminished.
From there irrelevant what people with individual culture may possibly consider passable as effect on thirds, as for the victim actually nothing changes.
Let´s keep in mind that the nature of evil is the fancy of two different sets of applying law. The one applying to thirds and the other one very differently to oneself.
There exists no conclusive refuge for alike intellectual failure / comforting and miserable malice.
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One example that I like to mention about insensibility is the following:
Until early 20th century physicians were convinced that the nervous system of suckling was not yet developed enough to sense pain. So, they would operate babies without anaesthesia.
You can certainly imagine how the sucklings would vehemently react to such approach. Yet, physicians would procede despite of objective symptoms with suffering sucklings, simply because of the operators´ conviction. Today one may remotely estimate the trauma for countless victims of stoical ignorance, throughout their pity lives.
Noteworthy how the ignoring of the walk through hell, however persistantly, could not in a way lessen anything about the wordly facts of enduring. And today I assume we are all being really glad that physicians finally changed their mind and procedure.
A same thing due to matadores and perfidly gloating public.
The sooner they come to senses the better.
Ruphus
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Date Jun. 14 2014 9:02:40
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athrane77
Posts: 785
Joined: Feb. 6 2011
From: Reykjavik
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RE: The Bullfight Bloody "UPSET... (in reply to changue)
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It's fine that you discuss about ethic and culture, but I have to say, you don't have to understand bullfighting to be a good flamenco. I'm not spanish, sometimes I feel like a foreigner, sometimes like a spaniard who's born here. But I always know that I will never have the sonikete of a gitano born in jerez.
When someone's asking me if I like the bullfight I usually say something like "I don't know" and shut up. I have to respect this and I don't want to argue about it because I have no clue. And I'm happy with that. I'm german and it's okay when I don't understand something of their culture and I think it's important to know where you come from. No one really want's you to forget your culture, it's part of your identity and I think it's very disrespectful if someone's demands this from you.
I'm here to learn to play authentic, but I think it's more important to understand letras and to understand how to speak like a flamenco than to understand the bullfight. Andalusians are very religous and many palos (saeta, martinete) are about their feelings about god and jesus. Morante, are you religious? No? Oh man you just don't understand their culture.
You see how dumb this is?
Gitanos usally love the bullfight but there're many, especially young people, who hate it. And they play a lot better than I.
Do they don't understand their own culture as well?
We talking about stereotypes and I'm happy people are bit more complex than this.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 14 2014 12:45:37
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