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The Bullfight
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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 The Bullfight
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Don't ask me why, but as I paint the kitchen for the 2nd time this week (this time in Navajo White instead of Ultra White), and listen to Paco's Zapateado with orchestra (I love that piece!), I reminisce about Sevilla.
In the flamenco school I attended, which only had one Spaniard enroll for the summer program (for guitarists), Juan decided to take us to the bullfight. It was scheduled, I believe, for 9 pm, and we were to meet near the bridge near the arena. I was all excited to go see my first bullfight, but Jan and Phillip didn't seem so thrilled. Jan told me "Have you seen a bullfight before?" No, had he? He saw one on TV a few years ago, and he said it was "Bad," as he shook his head. Jan was a gentle and kind soul. "They killed five bulls. The bullfighters didn't take any risks. The bulls never had a chance," he shook his head.
I decided I didn't want to go see five bulls die. I had thought there would be one titanic clash between man and big-balls-having beast. But just a slaughter? No thanks!
Juan shook his head in disgust and declared he was still going (he didn't speak English and we all spoke merely halfway decent Spanish, but that's what he said allright). He ended up going by himself and had a ball.
Jan said, that Juan was elated the next morning in class. How many bulls did they kill. "Cinco. Que bonita, que bonita!"
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Date Feb. 25 2005 17:57:48
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Escribano
Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
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RE: The Bullfight (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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I am no expert but there is some correlation between flamenco and the bull fight. The tradition, the rules, the history, the main players & their roles, the families, the stylised performance.
I have learned, diplomatically, not to have an opinion about bull fighting, when asked what I think from a Spaniard.
For the record, I have never been to the corrida but I think I might one day, now I have a different perspective on the elements of flamenco..... those bulls are going to die and if not in a bullfight, then for our burgers. I am not arguing for or against on the global stage - BTW.
Try Hemmingway's "Death In The Afternoon" for THE book on the subject - you will find common ground with flamenco I suspect.
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Date Feb. 25 2005 18:42:02
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bailoro2000
Posts: 93
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
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RE: The Bullfight (in reply to Escribano)
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Just for the record Simon, bullfights aren't pretty. If you have a weak stomach, don't go.
This is from experience, not reading books:
Most of those around you, even women and kids howl for the kill, but it has to be clean or the bullfighter can finish up getting booed from the arena. A matador never fights a bull right from the off, he wouldn't stand a chance. A bull only ever fights once, even on the rare occasions it is spared, because after that it would have learned and be too dangerous. And that red cape is just for show; bulls are colour blind and don't know the difference. Because their eyes are on the side of their heads, they also can't see straight ahead when the matador stands up close directly in front of them. That's why they do it.
The real killers are all the others in the entourage; the supporting matadors run the steam off it, the picador actually half kills it from horseback by taking all the strength from its neck muscles, then the bandarillas, sometimes the matador himself, drive it mad with the darts all before the main man puts the finishing touches to the kill after executing his mandatory passes. I've seen a matador have half a dozen attempts with the sword, one in which it bent completely and flew across the ring, before it's heart was finally pierced by someone else. Needless to say that matador got a very bad reception.
I haven't been since. It was bad. The prices are also bad now, extortionate even.
My wife has been with me a couple of times but detests the sport. When one matador got his leg pierced in Mijas she had no sympathy at all. Last time I got my come-uppance for going by not inspecting my seat. The hot sun had melted the resin in the wood of the seats (I hadn't bothered with a cushion) and, when I tried to stand up at the end I was well and truly stuck. My wife wet herself laughing and when I finally got free I had to kneel up in the taxi back to our hotel to save ruining the seats. She said it was sheer justice.
That matadors are brave is without question, but not one of them would ever take on a four year old fighting bull in a field. There would only be one winner. Like flamenco, bullfighting is a minority pastime, even amongst Spaniards, many of whom hate it. An aquired taste that doesn't suit all palates. Don't let this put you off, but be prepared for
what you see. The saddest sight is seeing the dead bull dragged away across the sand by mules (or in bigger arenas, a tractor) while the matador parades around with its ears.
Not for the faint-hearted. In addition to Miguel's suggestion you might read another book of Hemingway's "Dangerous Summer" Makes fascinating reading but nothing prepares you for the reality.
Jim
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Date Feb. 25 2005 20:02:34
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: The Bullfight (in reply to bailoro2000)
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I think there is something in the Corrida which is very close to Flamenco, and from what I've observed (in the past) of the Spanish character.
It sounds "old hat", but really, it is this thing about vulnerability in the face of death.
Not as in other societies which celebrate only the conquest and victory.
The Lorca-esque "Walk like Death is at your shoulder" I find present in all great Flamenco.
It's difficult to get a handle on Flamenco.
It's neither the gritty Delta Blues nor the smarmy "Stand by Your Man" kind of C&W kind of music, but actually contains strong elements of each, as well as being infused by strong elements and principles of all kinds of ancient cultures.
When I see Paco de Lucia up there on stage, just on his own, playing before thousands of people, just with some ideas and basically, six strings stretched on a wooden box, then, sure, I can appreciate the style and love of the Matador in Spanish culture.
The vulnerability yes, but not just the victory over death, but the victory over death in such a stylistic and amazing way that it breathes life itself into the audience.
That's why they shout and scream.
It's a pesonal, maybe quasi-religious encounter.
Personally, I feel the Bullfight's days are numbered now with Spain's enthusiastic embracing of the EU and it's standards for both Humans and Animals, and not a bad thing too IMO.
But the principle still holds, and that in my view, is an inherant and irrevocable part of both Spanish culture and society and especially Flamenco.
cheers
Ron
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Date Feb. 25 2005 20:56:45
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bailoro2000
Posts: 93
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
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RE: The Bullfight (in reply to Ron.M)
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I take your points Ron, but there is also the practical to consider as well as the romantic. In addition to culture and tradition, before the not too long ago event of tourism in Spain, bullfighting or flamenco were the only way the young, particularly rural Andalusians, could find any sort of living. Fame and fortune were of the Holy Grail statues compared to making any sort of money to live. Tourism and the arrival of culture seekers from other country's brought a whole new world to Spain. You might say it was the invention period of the Spanish waiter and the death of family continuation in smallholder farming 
Lorca's statement of walking like death was at your shoulder was not just poetical, indeed it was almost a prediction. Death did walk at his, and all too soon struck. Flamenco, to me, was the story of the whole way of life in song.
Okay, I'm done and gone 
Jim.
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Date Feb. 25 2005 22:28:51
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gerundino63
Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands
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RE: The Bullfight (in reply to gerundino63)
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I have a nice quote here from D. E Pohren.
Late in the afternoon on bullfight days the sun slants menacingly against the irregular geometry of Andalucian villages, illuminating the stark-whiteness of humble houses crowding haphazardly about churches,moorish ruins, and, symbols of Andalucia, bull rings.
On thesr days the air is charged with excitement, anxiety, fear.....and a source-less
undercurrent of a flamenco guitar, sounding at first slowly, clearly, profound, and then growing louder and raspier and cruel as the blood of man or beast spills to the sand.....
The eternal guitar plays on, and its duende seeps into aficionados, the walls, the wine, everywhere, and makes the village vibrant and explosive. It does not subside until long after the bullfight and the inevitable juergas, and even then never completely disapears.
For this guitar is the soul of flamenco, the soul of bullfighting....
the timeless essence of Andalucia.
From the book The art of flamenco D.E. Pohren
Peter
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Date Feb. 28 2005 9:00:05
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Guest
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RE: The Bullfight (in reply to gerundino63)
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If we look at the historical record, (without emotion!), we can see that the corrida and flamenco have been inextricably linked from the beginning. From the 17th century, virtually all of the gitanos del Barrio de Santa Maria worked in the Matadero de Cadiz, which is today La Peña Flamenca de la Perla. At the time it was virtually one of the first escuelas taurinas. In 1685, the butchers of Cadiz complained about the state of the meat they were receiving, because matadores were practicing their estocada in the Matadero.
A study of carteles taurinos of the time shows clearly that many cantaores also worked in the cuadrillas of famous matadores: for example, both Enrique el Mellizo and Curro Dulse worked in the Matadero and also as puntilleros in the cuadrillas of Hermosilla and Lavi. (Guillermo Boto Arneau: Cadiz, origin del toreo a pie.2nd ed., 2002).
Whether we like it or not, a fundamental link between the corrida and el cante existed, exists and cannot be denied.
Sean
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Date Feb. 28 2005 12:58:28
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Guest
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RE: The Bullfight (in reply to Escribano)
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Simon
Thank you for sorting out the problem: now I am logged in with the same username and password as before, happier but none the wiser 
Sean
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Date Feb. 28 2005 16:17:19
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Kate
Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía
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RE: The Bullfight (in reply to Escribano)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Escribano
I have learned, diplomatically, not to have an opinion about bull fighting, when asked what I think from a Spaniard.
Very wise Simon, I used to be the same. Now however I own up to watching and appreciating the Corrida thanks to friends who have taken time to explain the art to me. Jaime 'El parrón' was a bullfighter as are many of his friends and his son in law and I often sit and watch the corrida at his house with them explaining why they are impressed and when they are not. It is not about the bull dying but about how it is killed, the moves and the grace of the kill. Emilio's album is called ' Temple' in homage to the grace of the bullfighter facing the kill.
Harold recently had to record sound for a film in an abbatoir, its a killing factory, a thousand pigs a day, and they scream with fear, not pleasant for anyone never mind a vegetarian like my Harold. I know I would prefer to be at a bullfight than an abbatoir. The bull is respected and honoured, a concept I would have had difficulty with some time ago.
Kate
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Date Mar. 1 2005 17:06:45
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: The Bullfight (in reply to Kate)
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Hi Kate,
A bit off-topic, but I can't get involved in any blood sports arguments since I eat meat myself, so those guys can always out-argue me and I accept that.
What makes me laugh though, are the "packet" non-meat eaters who cringe at the sight of a pork chop or a raw chicken, but happily buy packets of prepared (usually microwaveable) frozen food from their local supermarket.
An interesting thing happened last weekend when my wife's colleague's daughter came over for a "sleepover" with my own daughter.
Since I do the cooking, I asked her mum what sort of things does she like to eat.
"Oh...not meat or anything, just Chicken Nuggets or Pizza and chips." she said, "...and she doesn't like vegetables.."
Anyway, I got a nice piece of chicken breast, diced it up and coated it with breadcrumbs with some salt and pepper, cut up a couple of spuds to make chips (French...no sorry, Freedom Fries..LOL!)
I deep fried the lot in sunflower oil, drained it well on kitchen towel and served it with a salad of lettuce, red cabbage, cucumber, olives and tomatoes with a dressing of the vinegar used for soaking gherkins, along with some pre-made supermarket tomato and garlic bread.
The kids scoffed the lot!
At work, my wife's colleague said that her daughter said it was the best chicken nuggets she had ever had.
I offered to tell her how to make it, but she recoiled in horror saying, "Oh no...I couldn't even touch anything like raw chicken."
As I said, it's off-topic, but there's a story in there somewhere! LOL!
cheers
Ron
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Date Mar. 1 2005 20:36:57
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: The Bullfight (in reply to bailoro2000)
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Once, when having a conversation with a Vegetarian, I came up with this oddball theory, that the success of cattle as species is due to the fact that we farm them.
If we had no use for them, then you'd have to go to a Zoo to see a cow or a pig.
I must admit that I do feel morally guilty though, so I try to forget about abbatoirs etc.
Also, I insist that my daughter eats a balanced diet, including meat until she's 16 or so, then she can make her own decisions.
Eliminating meat from your diet may be OK as an adult, but I feel it's just too dodgy to experiment on your kids, unless you are a nutritionist or really know what your doing.
Only last week I heard a doctor express some concern about this.
cheers
Ron
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Date Mar. 2 2005 11:05:38
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