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We Wuz Robbed!!
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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 We Wuz Robbed!!
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Well, despite the efforts of PM Cameron, His Royal Highness The Bonnie Young Prince William and His Holiness David Beckham, Britain spent £15million to get only 1 vote from a dodgy guy who is under investigation... 
All respect to Beckham and Prince Willie, for taking the time out to "put something back" (allegedly they were paid only £250,000 each for their valuable time...chicken feed, all considering, I suppose  ...)
Apparently Quatar, with just over 1.5m population, with 95% of the country just desert and sand and no large sports stadiums to really speak of, or transport, accommodation or evening entertainment infrastructure at all, is the best choice for 2018 to cope with millions of football fans from all over the world..
Ummm....amongst those aged, creaking, 82 year old dinosaurs of FIFA (who will still not allow video evidence to alter the referee's decision....even though MILLIONS of people all over the world can clearly see what happened right in front of their eyes.) are there any who can honestly say on the Judgement Day that they have not been influenced by generous hospitality and the odd stuffed plain-brown envelope?
I'm not really worried....
Scotland won't even f'ing well qualify for either... 
cheers,
Ron
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 3 2010 19:30:46
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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 RE: We Wuz Robbed!! (in reply to Doitsujin)
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quote:
What is the funniest is that in my language we don´t say something like Ma'am or sir at all... and nothing is missing. Im just wondering why that is so often used in english..I mean its in 90% useless...
It's really only used to show respect and deference.
Formal (society) English is a very "apologetic" language and that's probably why we regard American English as being rather blunt and direct.
Things are changing though, slowly towards the American, more casual way of speech.
For example, it's quite common now for workers to address their supervisors and bosses by their first name and that would have been unheard of even 50 years ago.
One awkward thing about English, is that there is no "inbetween" word for addressing a stranger.
It's either an implied "you" (by missing it out) or Sir or Madam, which is over the top.
Spanish is much better in this respect, as you can use "usted" or Señor(a) in the street, whereas here Mr. or Mrs. without a surname sounds cheeky.
Also a person can show respect without appearing too familiar by addressing someone as Don or Doña and then their first name.
So a kid can call a friend of his grandpa, or an older neighbour something like Don José or Doña María and it's perfectly acceptable.
Here, it's really clumsy...
John would be too familiar, Sir would be too formal so the kid is stuck with something like "Mr.Higginbottom", even though the person is a friend of the family and the kid has known him all his life.
A lot of British humor is based around social tension and avoiding talking about the elephant in the room.
That's probably why some of our comedy seems weird to other English speaking cultures.
Actually, early American was pretty formal as well, but it seemed to die out.
I must admit, I'm surprised to hear that German doesn't have these kinds of formalities.
cheers,
Ron
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Date Dec. 5 2010 10:17:37
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: We Wuz Robbed!! (in reply to Ron.M)
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German does have its formal way too, but such has vastly vanished these days.
( What formal salutation is concerned, there even was a time when youngster were obligate to adress their parents per "sie", which equals "madam / sir".)
Not that much ago like the madam / sir-age, until ~ 30 years ago there was quite a difference to educated speech compared with today.
As in fact correct use of the language has vansihed, even literally, how could formal speech not.
For it being the most concise language ( therefore first in line internationally for technical description ), contemporary average will not wholy understand you anymore, should you speak in a refined way. ( You will have to stretch through incorrect grammar, if you want to be understood immediately.)
The dilution has gone so far even that colloquial and simpified / blurred speech and grammar have been integrated into the "Duden" ( ruling dictionary ), which was an untold pity, as specialities of the language, hence conciseness and precision got lost that way.
A cultural loss, instigated by a print- and publishing branch which realized turnover by re-editions and reprints. Another example of profane cash-in backgrounds and corruption regardlessly.
A reform yet welcomned by pupils and students, whose abilities of focus and comprehension has decreased so much over the past decades that lots of text had to be taken out from didactical literature and to be replaced by graphs and pictures, for graduates to get along.
For whom likes to get a notion of colloqial, yet well pronounced, differenciating and logical German language of the past: Check out corresponding productions like for instance the TV serial "Tadellöser & Wolf".
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Very interesting to me what you say, Ron.
My impression is that Americans though less ornate than the British, are still being very subtle. ( At least, who understands himself distinguished / sophisticated, so it seems.)
So much that none-natives like me need to be quite awake to sense negatition at times. As it could be sounding rather indifferent or even positive what actually might be rejection.
( In the opposite to German ways, which while to many cultures appearing rude / impertinent, often times being meant matey.)
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What humour is concerned I absolutely adore the British way to interact, with the American humorous style second internationally. Such a great way to come along and brighten up! :O)
When I asked around long ago, how come the British were so outstanding in this regard, I was told the humour there to be a result of historical hardship on the island.
That the people, due to find a way to overcome chronically depressing situation, in the end had done so in their own remarkabe way.
Would that be a somewhat correct explanation?
Ruphus
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 5 2010 14:57:36
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: We Wuz Robbed!! (in reply to XXX)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ron.M
quote:
Would that be a somewhat correct explanation?
I'm not sure, Ruphus...
Certainly the end of WWII also signalled an end to general deference to the "upper" classes, culminating in the satire shows, music and books of the early to mid 60's.
Dark, or "gallows" humour is probably present in all societies under adverse conditions I think.
cheers,
Ron
What I meant though was history in the range of centuries.
In my subjective observation there exists no other mentality as humorous like the British and American ones, but I might mistaking.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bursche
Don't forget:
The german architect who was given the order for the Quatar project, Albert Speer, Is the son of the main architect and minister of armaments of the Nazis, Albert Speer.
In the Near East majority thinks big times of the nazis.
They don´t even have a notion of the 200 million death toll and the actual doctrin behind it, let alone how they would had been treated themselves if Hitler´s plans had succeeded.
Apparently it would take a whole lot to update the wordly vision there.
- Many don´t even seem to know in how far the average German has changed fundamentally in mind since WWII.
I have been told several times of how German tourists in Arab countries were greeted with the nazi salutation, not ironically meant at all.
( And had my own share of trying to correspondingly indicate relations to people there.)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Deniz
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruphus
The dilution has gone so far even that colloquial and simpified / blurred speech and grammar have been integrated into the "Duden" ( ruling dictionary ), which was an untold pity, as specialities of the language, hence conciseness and precision got lost that way.
I love it how language develops. Especially youth language has always been the most creative, in all times of history. My brother is 14 years old and he already knows some words that i didnt know. For example: "sich abpacken" for "hinfallen".
Sure, can it be funny at times. But colloquial and slang are different from literal speech, and as such should be kept apart, especially if the first would scale down semantic means of the second as a logical and originally highly differenciating language.
What "Neusprech" ( hipster language ) is concerned I certainly do not appreciate how youngsters these days have adapted the pronounciation of Turkish immigrants and the shortcomings on separating "ch" from "sch" as well as much of grammar.
These days fiction writers are being accepted who would had not even made it through middle school ~ 30 years ago. And yet professionals like press lectors as of "Der Spiegel" or "Die Zeit" seem to not be firm in their language skills anymore.
To me a deplorable situation in Goethe´s homeland.
Much like popular German professors of Philosophy who don´t know basics like the difference between moral and ethics.
Uncomparable to former intelligencija who´d become almost visually blind from all the studying they used to.
Not all that is new will stand for development; not in the sense of progress.
Ruphus
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 6 2010 9:47:41
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