Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods and David Serva who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Did anybody watch Niño Jero?   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

Did anybody watch Niño Jero? 

For about the last three weeks now the Ondajerez programme "A Compás" has been featuring Niño Jero as the main accompanist.
Man, the guy is baldy, with a big Santa Claus beard...
But, By God, can the man play!
He always plays the same falsetas over and over again, regardless of whom he is accompanying.
But is the guy Flamenco?
Well, is the Pope Catholic?
This guy's guitar is so out of tune, but his thumb really hits it out.
You gotta see/hear this guy!
No wonder that along with Diego Amaya he is one of the preferred guitarristas of "El Capullo".
The man doesn't just play Flamenco, he practically tastes it!
What a personality!!

cheers

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 9 2005 20:46:27
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

I saw him in Moguer, near Huelva. He is a fun performer, and sort of exudes compas and complete rhythmic security. I think watching him, you get a sense of what you were talking about Ron, not just the 3 and 10, but the 1 2 3 4 5 etc and all the beats in between.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 9 2005 23:49:44
 
Escribano

Posts: 6356
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

You gotta see/hear this guy!


Couldn't agree more. I caught him with Capullo at the Buleria last year, went down a storm. A great example of the Jerezano thumb I bang on about. He is rock and roll.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
My Photos
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2005 8:18:26
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Escribano

What gets me about him is that the guitar is only roughly in tune, the microphone is stuck right in front of the soundhole, he doesn't hit notes cleanly, his falsetas are basic to say the least and his playing would be considered crude by most guitarists standards but everything he plays sounds muy Flamenco and spot on.
I was just ending my practise session, so I was sitting with the guitar and everything I played sounded prissy and crap in comparison, even just a single chord.

cheers

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2005 8:52:13
 
Escribano

Posts: 6356
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

I was just ending my practise session, so I was sitting with the guitar and everything I played sounded prissy and crap in comparison, even just a single chord.


It is because we play alone that we hear every flaw and therefore fine-tune our approach. In a group (as in any group), one cannot hear these "flaws", the dynamics of the group take over and you have flamenco, yes?

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
My Photos
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2005 9:53:23
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Escribano

My way of looking at it is flamenco and guitar are actually two seperate things, only tangentially linked. When we talk about guitar, we mean getting aroudn the fingerboard, being able to play chords and notes with precision and fluidity, rhythm, harmony, melody, dynamics.... but when we talk about flamenco, we are really talking about being able to speak a "language". The flamenco guitar is a percussion instrument, and although conga players tune their drum heads no one really cares if it's off a couple semitones. In flamenco, people basically want a cajon with a neck. There are bad guitarists who are good flamencos, in my opinion.

And... Chocolate is a bad singer, but a good flamenco! My voice teacher couldn't stop himself from laughing when he listened to the Gipsy King singer... I cant imagine what he would have said if he had heard Agujetas!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2005 14:56:33
 
Mark2

Posts: 1740
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Miguel de Maria

I don't think I'd call them bad guitarists. They are using the guitar to perform a function which is essential to the situation, and doing it well. It's just like a simple rock thing-maybe only three chords are required, but if the guy does them just right and with the right sound, then he's a good guitarist. Several years ago, I took my then 13 year old to a blink 182 concert. The guy didn't play much, but everything he played was perfect for the gig. His sound was great. Between songs he made a joke about being a bad guitarist, and to illustrate he hit a bent note intentionally slighlty out of tune. Took a bit of finesse to do the "joke" just right. About your vocal teacher, I don't know if I'd stay with that fellow. Those guys in the GK's can sing there asses off. If he can't hear that.........but then I think Chocolate is a great singer!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2005 16:09:47
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Mark2

I'm not with the voice teacher anymore. He's too "opera." What he said about the GK guy is that he has a wonderful voice and feeling, but that he's "ruining his voice" by the way he's singing. Obviously he had no experience with flamenco. There are some things that are sort of like musical "junk food"-- they sound good, but they are bad for your mechanism. Some people can get away with it for years, like Sr. Chocolate, some people will lose their voice. Nicolas, the Gk lead singer, certainly can't do what he used to....

My teacher was in his seventies, so I didn't really expect him to be open to new ways. I learned what I could, and moved on...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2005 16:23:34
 
eslastra

 

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Escribano

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

the dynamics of the group take over and you have flamenco, yes?


I've found this to be true not just in flamenco, but in all other musical groups I've played in. It's very difficult to fully emulate the full 'rock', 'r&b', 'jazz', or 'flamenco' experience totally alone. Not to say it couldn't be done, there are the few that can pull it off. The fun of it all is when artists are able to play off of each other's energies to create the magic of the moment. And that's what gets everybody into it. JMHO

_____________________________

Eddie Lastra
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2005 19:15:32
 
nhills

Posts: 230
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: West Des Moines, IA USA

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

Diego del Gastor wasn't much for technique either!

Norman
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2005 20:27:14
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to eslastra

quote:

It's very difficult to fully emulate the full 'rock', 'r&b', 'jazz', or 'flamenco' experience totally alone


I appreciate what you are saying there Eddie, but what I was talking about was just Niño Jero playing with a singer.
No others involved, so when he played a falseta, he was just on his own.
That's why I said that even stroking a single chord it was charged with "flamenco".
When I played the same chord it was not the same.
Not even close.
Why?

I have a feeling that even the amazing Vincente Amigo feels a bit of discomfort hearing those sort of players in the same way that maybe Eric Clapton feels when hearing some of those great Delta Blues players with their roughly tuned guitars giving it heavy thumb with a little bit of tasty fingerwork compared to his own practised and refined stuff.
It's not a sound that's easily copied, although seems easy enough.

Remember perhaps Niño Jero plays that way because he likes the sound and not because he's not a good enough player to play lightning picado.
And when you play that simply for so long, then after decades you start to become a master of the "sounds inbetween the sounds" that makes his style and tone so difficult to imitate?

cheers

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2005 21:22:33
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

Ron,
that's the point of it all, I think.... I mean, technique and fluency is great, but there is another thing, and that is your idiomatic knowledge and experience and your Voice. It doesn't matter how many scales or la la la la la las I sing, I'll never sound like Andrea Bocceli or Camaron or Nicolas Reyes :). My voice is my own.

But...I better watch out for Eddie or Martin here... Eric Clapton is British! He's not from the Delta! At least Vicente is from Andalucia... :)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2005 21:30:36
Guest

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

Hola

If you have the great BBC documentary an Andalucian Journey, the final juerga, in Cadiz, features a much younger Niño Jero, with Jose Herrera on 2nd guitar. He was much more normal then.

Sean
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2005 21:42:57
 
eslastra

 

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

It's very difficult to fully emulate the full 'rock', 'r&b', 'jazz', or 'flamenco' experience totally alone


I appreciate what you are saying there Eddie, but what I was talking about was just Niño Jero playing with a singer.
No others involved, so when he played a falseta, he was just on his own.
That's why I said that even stroking a single chord it was charged with "flamenco".
When I played the same chord it was not the same.
Not even close.
Why?

I have a feeling that even the amazing Vincente Amigo feels a bit of discomfort hearing those sort of players in the same way that maybe Eric Clapton feels when hearing some of those great Delta Blues players with their roughly tuned guitars giving it heavy thumb with a little bit of tasty fingerwork compared to his own practised and refined stuff.
It's not a sound that's easily copied, although seems easy enough.

Remember perhaps Niño Jero plays that way because he likes the sound and not because he's not a good enough player to play lightning picado.
And when you play that simply for so long, then after decades you start to become a master of the "sounds inbetween the sounds" that makes his style and tone so difficult to imitate?

cheers

Ron


Ron,

Just trying to share my 2 cents worth FWIW I had to reread the entire thread to make sure I didn't misunderstand it. Similar to what you were saying, I was just trying to say too that there is a certain 'magic' I've observed that occurs when certain artists 'connect' that transcends technical perfection and musical style. It's that type of impact you can be hit with and be willing to 'forgive' the imperfections in exchange for 'fulfillment'. I'm one that is more impressed with this aspect of a performance rather than technical capabilities. If I want to listen to technical perfection, I put on a CD recording. I think that is a different type of listening pleasure.

In the example of Nino Jero, I don't see him or any cante accompanist as being totally on his own when playing a falseta, because he's drawn in a certain feeling from accompanying the singer and in response, his falseta is enhanced by this feeling. A good singer can really inspire and reach parts of the soul that an instrument can't. So even though it's the same old falseta he's played for years, just at this moment in time, there will be something a little different about it. As you say, it's been 'charged'. And what I was trying to say was that is something that can't be easily duplicated because it belonged to them at that moment. I think we understood the same thing, but from different angles? Forgive me for rambling

_____________________________

Eddie Lastra
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 11 2005 0:28:22
 
eslastra

 

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

But...I better watch out for Eddie or Martin here... Eric Clapton is British! He's not from the Delta! At least Vicente is from Andalucia... :)


Huh?? I'm not sure how to respond to this. Did I say something offensive in the past? If I did, please forgive me as I'm totally unaware. Somtimes posting on the forums makes me nervous because I never know whether what I'm saying is being understood the way I intended it, or if I'm just talking nonsense. Maybe it's safer for me to go back into lurking mode

_____________________________

Eddie Lastra
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 11 2005 0:39:10
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3527
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to eslastra

Eddie, don't apologize, let me apologize! I had a discussion with someone, I couldn't remember if it was you or Mark (don't ask me why those two names came up), about Eric Clapton. I was just making a little joke about it.... So, no you certainly didn't say anything wrong--your contribution here is very valuable and appreciated!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 11 2005 3:00:40
 
eslastra

 

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Miguel de Maria

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

Eddie, don't apologize, let me apologize! I had a discussion with someone, I couldn't remember if it was you or Mark (don't ask me why those two names came up), about Eric Clapton. I was just making a little joke about it.... So, no you certainly didn't say anything wrong--your contribution here is very valuable and appreciated!


Miguel,
Whew, that makes me feel better, thanks I wasn't sure if there was some humor there that I was supposed to catch but missed (I've been known to do that ), or if there was something else between the lines, if you know what I mean. Anyway, no offense taken. I was just concerned that I inadvertently slammed someone or something they said, and if I did, I certainly wanted to clear it up.

_____________________________

Eddie Lastra
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 11 2005 5:05:25
 
Escribano

Posts: 6356
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to eslastra

quote:

was just trying to say too that there is a certain 'magic' I've observed that occurs when certain artists 'connect' that transcends technical perfection and musical style


I agree with you. Very few famous bands were technically perfect or in any way technocrats - they came together, moved as one for a while and then broke apart.

It is an interesting difference that flamencos are not in bands, as such, but are rather known as individuals (cante) or duos (cante and guitar).

I suspect the difference is that flamenco is a repetoire that is always there and musicians can pull it out of the air when they come together, whomever they are. When it really works, you have duende.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
My Photos
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 11 2005 9:23:54
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Escribano

Yeah, I agree with you and Eddie about that "group" feeling.
I liked Mike's comment about Flamencos "just wanting a cajon with a neck" LOL!
I've often thought this myself.
I have a feeling that the only real fans of true solo Flamenco guitar are other guitarists.
I bet if you had to stop and ask everybody coming out of a solo recital, be it Classical or Flamenco, you'd find that a lot of them either play or have played some kind of guitar style at one point in their lives.
I suppose we're a bit like trainspotters in that respect LOL!
(I'll get my anorak)

cheers

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 11 2005 10:16:59
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13656
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

I have a feeling that even the amazing Vincente Amigo feels a bit of discomfort hearing those sort of players...


As a matter of fact Ron, I have a nice video bootleg of Camaron being accompanied Por Solea and Bulerias, by a young mullet-haired Vicente, and bearded Mr. Jero. Anyone else seen this and care to comment? Vicente seemed to be "acting" like the lead guitar, but Jero blew him away w/ his famous one-note-on-two-strings thumb work. As far as accompanying the Shrimp, well, I don't want to say more than it seemed Tomatito was missed, at least a little bit. I do like to hear a singer accompanied by different players though, it is very helpful to see how different accompanists handle it differently.

ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2005 6:29:34
 
eslastra

 

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

I do like to hear a singer accompanied by different players though, it is very helpful to see how different accompanists handle it differently.

ricardo


This also interests me with different singers. One example, when comparing the Paco and Camaron to the Tomatito and Camaron, it seems to me Camaron's a little more at ease with Tomatito. In some ways, I think they connected better as a duo. In the few clips I've seen, Tomatito played simpler falsetas. I'd like to see more clips to see if this was his usual way of accompanying Camaron.

_____________________________

Eddie Lastra
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2005 23:01:13
 
eslastra

 

Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

I have a feeling that the only real fans of true solo Flamenco guitar are other guitarists.



I'd agree totally with that, in fact whenever PdL or some other monster comes to town to play, it's becomes a class reunion of all the local guitarists

_____________________________

Eddie Lastra
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2005 23:04:38
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13656
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

Hi Eddie,
IMO, the plain simple truth is that there are few accompanists as good as Tomatito, especially for rhythmic forms bulerias/tangos/solea, etc. Falsetas have little to do w/ it. It is more the way he plays chords and accents, helping the singer, letting him ride the waves comfortably. Paco does not close up phrases the same as Tomate. Moraito, Juan Habichuela, P. Cepero, are also good at this. Any guitarist can be good when it is rehearsed, but when there is improvisation, the singer needs someone to give them what they need to feel comfortable. Not that Paco and Vicente are not good, just that those other guys can really make the singer feel comfortable. Listen to Zambo sing w/ Moraito, then listen to how Tomatito plays for him. Both good, but different styles.

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 12 2005 23:31:47
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Ron.M

[Deleted by Admins]

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2006 0:55:13

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

If anyone knows of any CDs or DVDs featuring Nino jero, please let me know... I've tried the usual retailers with no success.

Cheers,

Jb

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 21 2006 21:14:40
 
duende121

Posts: 86
Joined: Aug. 24 2005
 

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

Hi
I don t know the concert you are speaking of, but I personaly had some lessons in Jerez with Jero and he is a great player. I hope you are speaking of antonio Jero? Not his son? Or his brother? Jero plays on a pedagogical danse dvd with Maria del Mar Moreno and on this cd:
Rubichi
Luna de Calabozo
Let me know if we speak of the same guy.
Saludos

_____________________________

¡Vamos!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 9:40:33
 
Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to duende121

quote:

I hope you are speaking of antonio Jero?


Antonio Jero is El Niño Jero's younger brother. El Niño Jero's name is Pedro Carrasco AKA Periquín.

Phil
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 10:12:18
 
sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

Productos en los que ha colaborado Niño Jero:
http://www.esflamenco.com/bio/es10131.html

Puro y Jondo
Pansequito y Santiago Donday
http://www.esflamenco.com/product/es87917386.html

I have a VHS from tv where Niño Jero and Vicente together with Camarón i dont know if that is available on DVD as well..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 10:21:58
 
Conrad

Posts: 533
Joined: Jul. 16 2003
From: Toronto, ON, Canada

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to sonikete



This is the one you mean, no?

peace,

Con

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 17:45:44

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Did anybody watch Niño Jero? (in reply to Ron.M

Gracias Sonikete... thats what I was looking for. Although I was surprised that Nino Jero doesn't have "his own" album out yet. But its no problem, as there seem to be quite a few featuring him.

jb

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 19:37:52
Page:   [1] 2    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.078125 secs.