Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers

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estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers

I'm bored so I think I'll stir up some trouble this weekend.

My favorite three guitar makers are:

Gerundino Fernandez
Manuel Bellido
Francisco Barba

You would think I might like Barbero or Santos the best, but no. The most interesting guitars I've ever played were by these three. But I could change my mind tomorrow, and then change it back. I usually get infatuated with other makers work, but comeback to these three. Let's just say Barbero and Santos and are an a priori selection.

After all Gerundino is set apart from the field because his sound is so distinctive. It's big and woody and who among the guitarmakers who build bench copies or factory replicas is brave enough to make a Gerundino model? Gerundino's are rare bird indeed.

Bellido, known but underrated. Not big enough for people to want to make copies, but selective players know his work. A reputation based on good work with no market hype. His best guitars are better than Barbero and Santos, one could argue.

Barba, What can you say? He is one the best of the underrated makers and he has been taken for granted. Every time I've played a Barba I've never been disappointed. he's as good as Reyes, or better. There's been a good deal of oversight when it comes to what you get for the money. A Barba is not expensive in terms of high end blue chip guitars, but they are there in terms of performance.

Please discuss.............

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2010 11:03:47

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

I've never played any good guitars except mine

Well, not entirely true. I've played a '79 Ramirez 1a flamenco and a great guitar by John Park which I've been copying.

The best guitar I've ever heard in my life was a Pedro de Miguel 1a made for my old guitar teacher. I played it briefly but I couldn't make it sound very good back then.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2010 11:13:49

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

Oh this is going to get juicy. I feel a rant coming on.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2010 11:38:22

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

I know I know, you have to play and study good guitars in order to make good guitars. Care to ship some to me here in the black hole of the Flamenco universe (upstate NY)?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2010 12:03:30

Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

Hy

Here's my list:

Flamenco:

Marcelo Barbero
Manuel Reyes
Juan Miguel Gonzalez

Classical:

José Romanillos
Miguel Rodriguez
Raphael Moreno

regards

Armando

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2010 12:37:07

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

Barbero is a given. I said he and Santos are "a priori" subjects, meaning it's established they are on top. Only because it will make it more interesting rather than every other person saying Barbero.

Pick again!

( Let's keep classicals out of this, those things are nasty.)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2010 13:37:08

itoprover

Posts: 343
Joined: Jan. 3 2006

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

Aaron Green
Plazuelo
Conde

I would have put Reyes in my list judging only by Vicente's sound but the one I vetried personally was not even on the level of Plazuelo I tried.. so..

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2010 13:58:41

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I'm bored so I think I'll stir up some trouble this weekend.

My favorite three guitar makers are:

Gerundino Fernandez
Manuel Bellido
Francisco Barba

I haven't played enough of the great guitar makers to really say who I like best. I'd love to play one of Ander's guitars and a Green. I've played a lot of good guitars from most of the important makers but the ones that stick in my mind are a Ramirez from the mid 60's and a Paulino Bernabe that I played in Philadelphia that belonged to Carlos Ramos. That Bernabe was the loudest, most responsive guitar I think I've put my hands on. I've tried to duplicate that guitar ever since I played it. It was one of those guitars that produced the note exactly 1/64 or a second before your finger touched the string.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2010 15:31:59

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

manuel de chico
Carlos Isidro de Frontera
Salvador Castillo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2010 16:44:49

gemelo

Posts: 84
Joined: Aug. 23 2008

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

Manuel Reyes
Esteso-Conde Hermanos
Francisco Barba

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2010 18:02:52

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

a Paulino Bernabe that I played in Philadelphia that belonged to Carlos Ramos. That Bernabe was the loudest, most responsive guitar I think I've put my hands on. I've tried to duplicate that guitar ever since I played it.

Those are the guitars I find interesting, the ones that hunt and haunt you.

Antonio Moya's Bellido is like that for me. And David Serva's Gerundino. And my friend Bill Burgess's Barba. Lucky for me he let's me play the Barba whenever I want.

The Gerundino that Paco del Gastor recorded with a lot is a great guitar. Pedro Bacan recorded with Gerundino's often and I love his and Paco's sound.

I can see how a Bernabe would get under your skin.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2010 19:09:54

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

This is too difficult but if i have to choose....

Manuel Bellido (actually I admire the whole Bellido clan )
Pedro Moldanado
Ricardo Sanchis Carpio

Those are the best guitars I've played

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 0:57:47

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

Hermanos Sanchis Lopez
Conde Hermanos
Yamaha

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 5:31:14

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

Sobrinos de esteso
Conde Hermanos
Sanchis

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 6:01:48

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Sobrinos de esteso
Conde Hermanos
Sanchis

I would make no selection based on prejudice, rumors and gossips.

Vicente Amigo's "Reyes"
Gerardo Nunez' "Conde Hermanos"
Ricardo Marlow's "Conde Hermanos" -Naranja
Jim Opfer's "Gerundino"
..... anything Tomatito touches
and
my very own LA babe "por German Vazquez Rubio"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 6:18:27

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

quote:

a Paulino Bernabe that I played in Philadelphia that belonged to Carlos Ramos. That Bernabe was the loudest, most responsive guitar I think I've put my hands on. I've tried to duplicate that guitar ever since I played it.

Those are the guitars I find interesting, the ones that hunt and haunt you.

Antonio Moya's Bellido is like that for me. And David Serva's Gerundino. And my friend Bill Burgess's Barba. Lucky for me he let's me play the Barba whenever I want.

The Gerundino that Paco del Gastor recorded with a lot is a great guitar. Pedro Bacan recorded with Gerundino's often and I love his and Paco's sound.

I can see how a Bernabe would get under your skin.

If I recall Paco Pena had a Gerundino that he used on his early recordings. I can't remember if it was stolen, broken or what.

The problem with trying to pick makers instead of individual guitars is the tremendous variation in quality from some makers. After being blown away by one Bernabe I played a newer one that was a total dud. I've played individual guitars from many of the makers listed above as favorites that were disastrously bad. Nobody likes to admit a failure but it happens to all of us. Hopefully when it happens the maker has the integrity to sell it as a second. That used to be the norm.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 6:38:28

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

The problem with trying to pick makers instead of individual guitars is the tremendous variation in quality from some makers.

But in some makers there is great consistency- An over arching look at their career shows characteristics of sound and visual aesthetics. Gerundino fits in that group.
Condes and all the copies of Condes have major variation in quality. Some Condes are sublime and some not fit to paddle a canoe.

Giacomo you should be disqualified for your brazen display of nepotism. :)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 9:30:36

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

But in some makers there is great consistency- An over arching look at their career shows characteristics of sound and visual aesthetics. Gerundino fits in that group.

I suspect consistency is frequently sacrificed on the alter of increased production.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 9:46:23

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

I would like to add one brand to my favourites list :
Andalusian Guitars, because of their great consistency to produce the best firewood i have ever seen

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 9:47:06

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

It's little known that Joan Rivers plays a little guitar on the side. She goes by the name Jacinta de Aguas Viejas, studied under Charo no less.

She gives her opinion on Andalusian guitars and says of Conde, "I demure to comment, a lady never speaks ill of the dead."

So there you have it.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 10:23:05

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

I didn't know who this nice Lady with the botox face Joan Rivers is, i guess she is famous in US?
So i had to look up wikipedia and read that someone named Rosenberg who produced her show, comitted suicide afterwards, and that now she is selling jewerly on a shopping TV station named QVC.
Is this the same lady? Anyway, i don't understand her relation to guitars but
she is muy simpatico in the picture you posted.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 11:29:23

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to Arash)

A short pause for a break from our Sponsors....
We all hope you stay tuned... and from the bottom of my heart can I say to everyone most sincerely...

Welcome back after the break!!

Yayyyy!

Take it away Charo!!!

Olé!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 11:46:00

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to Ron.M)

I love Charo she's very cool in a cheesy female Liberace kind of way.

She also said about eating and love: "Spooning leads to forking."

Joan Rivers is a well known American comedian. She made plastic surgery famous and she was a pioneering woman in the entertainment business. She was the Sarah Silverman of three generations ago because she was famous for speaking her mind and not holding back when telling jokes or improvising.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 13:08:47

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

i think it is important to stipulate my 3 favorite that i have actually played and 3 that i have not played buy would want to play if i could get a time machine, etc.

guitars i have actually played that are my favorite: jose ramirez, aaron green and bellido/alhambra

guitars i have not played but which would be a favorite: sabicas ramirez, sabicas barbero and anything at r.e.brune's shop

the guitar i have never played but which i would find to be akin to the vuvuzela (that plastic trumpet like contraption that is ruining the world cup): i would have to second the nomination of andulcian guitar or maybe the drone is not from the guitar but the guitar's principle pitchman....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2010 15:41:37

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

manuel de chico
Carlos Isidro de Frontera
Salvador Castillo

Is that Manuel de la Chica? (Granada, 1911-1998) Or is there also a Manuel de Chico?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 24 2010 1:58:52

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

the ones that stick in my mind are a Ramirez from the mid 60's and a Paulino Bernabe that I played in Philadelphia that belonged to Carlos Ramos. That Bernabe was the loudest, most responsive guitar I think I've put my hands on. I've tried to duplicate that guitar ever since I played it.

Wow. Carlos gave me lessons on that guitar. (I mean he played it when giving lessons). I think he also had a Santos Hernandez? Hard to remember that long ago. I took lessons for 8 years from him. I had a Manuel de la Chica during much of that time, which was a pretty good guitar, but I couldn't make it sound like Carlos'. Carlos had such strong hands compared to my teenage spider fingers. He was as loud, clear, and fast as Sabicas, but more puro. I always wondered why he didn't tour more -- he could have, with Manolo Leiva and some of the El Bodegon dancers. Maybe he was too traditional to please US audiences.

Did you try that Bernabe while Carlos was still alive, or was that after Brune sold them for Carlos' widow?

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"Flamenco is so emotionally direct that a trained classical musician would require many years of highly disciplined formal study to fail to understand it."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 24 2010 2:12:21

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

ORIGINAL: a_arnold

quote:

manuel de chico
Carlos Isidro de Frontera
Salvador Castillo

Is that Manuel de la Chica? (Granada, 1911-1998) Or is there also a Manuel de Chico?

manuel de la chica. old style. love those guitars. want one.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 24 2010 5:59:20

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

ORIGINAL: a_arnold

Did you try that Bernabe while Carlos was still alive, or was that after Brune sold them for Carlos' widow?

Sorry, I typed the wrong name it was Carlos Rubio not Ramos. What a coincidence they would both used Bernabe guitars. I used to have a vinyl record of Carlos Ramos but never met him. He was a good player.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 24 2010 13:53:47

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to estebanana)

You didn't say whether past or present. The best three I have ever played from the past – A 1960s or 1970s Jose Ramirez - so long ago I can't remember the year, but it sounded great. My own 1970 Manuel Contreras. But the best sounding and most flamenco sounding guitar I have ever played was a mid-eighties Manuel Reyes peghead, that just blew me away.

Of today's makers, Manuel Reyes Hijo is making utterly fantastic sounding guitars.

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2010 20:13:59

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Your Favorite Three Guitar Makers (in reply to Ramon Amira)

Yes I like Reyes too, but I'm turned off by all the hype and excessive high prices. Which is why I have not jumped on the I'll make you a Reyes model the same as VA bandwagon. I'm not a collector so I tend to be less swayed by the guitar market. I've always thought a good Barba can hold it's own with any Reyes. I tend to favor the underdog, I suppose. I think Barba is underrated. If I could do anything it would be to understand Gerundino more.

Which reminds me I have a standing invitation to borrow my friends 68' magical Reyes for a few days to play. I'm going to put some photos of it up here. It's a magic guitar the way he used to make them.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2010 23:50:03