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RE: British Petroleum Makes me SICK
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: British Petroleum Makes me SICK (in reply to Pimientito)
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QUOTE: Our society creates demands for resources and companies supply them at any cost. They can make massive profits but don't seem to shoulder any responsibility for their business practices. This is the biggest problem with our capitalist model...corporations can make as much money as they can for share holders without any responsibility to our environment or local communities. UNQUOTE.
Pimientito, you are correct, but if corporations and businesses, all of whom make money for their shareholders (which include many of us who own stocks or mutual funds) were to pay the true cost of doing business (which would include the damage to the environment, the fouling of the air and water, etc.) either the cost of their products to the consumer would greatly increase or the stock and mutual fund shareholders would have to accept considerably less return, or both. I still maintain that we are as responsible as the corporations and governments for what is going on. How many of us would willingly and sanguinely accept much higher prices for food, fuel, power, and all those things that make our lives comfortable and easy, in order that companies use the additional revenue to offset the true cost of production by implementing much greener production techniques, reforestation at a sustainable level, cleaning up pollution levels, etc.? In the summer of 2008, the price of gasoline at the pump in the U.S. rose to $4.00 per gallon--and the public howled bloody murder! If the majority of the public consider that a huge imposition on their lifestyle, I can't imagine how they would accept even greater cost increases in other areas.
Some on this forum have argued that the ordinary public is "vulnerable" and subject to "manipulation" by corporations and governments. I don't believe that for one minute. We all know what we want, and we pay for it, not because we are manipulated, but because we want it, plain and simple. No one is forced to buy a particular vehicle (such as a huge, gas-guzzling SUV), the latest electronic gadget, or anything else. We all have minds capable of making individual decisions. If the public wanted small cars rather than SUVs, all they would have to do is not buy SUVs, and Detroit and others would make the type of cars we want. Demand determines supply. I still maintain that we have met the enemy and it is us.
Cheers,
Bill
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Date May 19 2010 18:22:28
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: British Petroleum Makes me SICK (in reply to cathulu)
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Well, BP have even admitted that Plan E will not completely solve the problem, as they cannot actually cap the riser, just fit a big tube over it and collect whatever they can.
This "relief wells" thing puzzles me too...
A drill hole is but a mere pinprick in a large oilfield.
Imagine you have a garden hose, pressurised, but shut off at the end nozzle.
Now, if you get a needle and puncture the hose, then water will squirt out.
(eg the first drill hole perforation into the oil bearing chamber)
Now, if you make several other needle holes nearby, water will squirt out of those too....but not significantly reduce the flow rate from the first hole...
Anyway...I'm sure BP must know what they're doing.  
BTW...there was a guy on the news this morning suggesting that they use an Atomic Bomb to seal it! 
cheers,
Ron
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Date Jun. 1 2010 0:54:03
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: British Petroleum Makes me SICK (in reply to cathulu)
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quote:
I can't believe the billions in clean-up and environmental damage and corporate damage is worth keeping the well open.
Hi Cathulu,
Estimated spillage per day is between 12,000 to 110,000 barrels per day (US Coastguard figures)
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/06/gulf-oil-spill-coast-guards-early-flow-estimates-released.html
At current oil price/barrel (at a current low) =approx $72
12,000 barrels = $864,000/day
110,000 barrels = $7,920,000/day
A business programme I heard on the radio said that BP were not financially in too bad a shape as the current estimate of liabilities amounted to about 7% of last year's profits worldwide.
Eees mucho dinero een thees beezness muchacho...
(If you own a giant milk-cow which is raging through all the china shops in the main street and damaging cars and property and generally causing havoc...the LAST thing you want is the Police or Army to shoot it!)
Also, offering responsibility for clearing up the mess via the media is not legally binding, though it's good PR to get through a rough patch.....
Bills and claims can be presented to BP, but that does not mean that they automatically have to pay them, regardless of their media spin, public promises and promises to the President.
This amount is still essentially capped in law.
They will leave it to the courts to settle and since blame is not immediately attributable to BP in law, and there are many avenues to explore...that could take years...probably decades...
It's called "kicking the ball into the long grass"...
As an example..
26 years after the Bhopal disaster in India where thousands died and thousands more left with long-term health problems, the residue still continues to pollute the water and the environment.
Union Carbide (who at the time solemnly promised to compensate everyone concerned and return the environment to its natural state) have parted with only a few 100 million dollars to date and nobody has ever been prosecuted.**
They have simply just "moved on" and just let bygones be bygones.
(BTW, a Louisiana law company has already submitted a 1700 page claims document to BP on behalf of a small community ruined by the spillage and the claim has been returned by the BP lawyers, asking for "more detail"....so there's a good example of how the "big boys" handle things.)
cheers,
Ron
**(07 June) Strangely enough this incident has just come on the radio this morning and it appears 26 years later, 8 folk have been found guilty of lesser charges which carry a 2 year maximum sentence. Sentencing has still to take place.
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Date Jun. 5 2010 10:13:10
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: British Petroleum Makes me SICK (in reply to Ron.M)
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Well, the truth is slowly trickling out...
Apparently after the Exxon Valdez incident, the US brought in much tighter controls over the Oil Industry.
When the prospect of the new Engineering challenge of "deepwater drilling" came about, certain "Green" movements were dead against it as they claimed that the technology was not sufficiently advanced to cope with unexpected and possibly major problems which could prove disasterous.
When deepwater drilling rights went up for sale in the Gulf of Mexico, the protesters claimed that this above all was much too sensitive an area Ecologically speaking, to try out such untried projects and tried to take the US Government to Court to force an injunction.
But it was fought and overruled by one George W Bush and his team who claimed that independence from imported oil was far too important to the US economy to be taken lightly and so won the case and exploratory drilling rights were sold.
When Obama won office, new protests were made, but he too stated that the US must rely upon it's own resources as much as possible, since the Middle East was looking increasingly unstable...and also that with the Economic Recession, many jobs and families depended on the Gulf Oil Industry, so gave his approval.
So, as you can see...it's not just the fault of some dodgy foreign company who were employed by a bigger dodgy foreign company to flog their services to an even bigger dodgy foreign company.
There were MANY fingers in the pie.
Just as in the Banking disaster.
cheers,
Ron
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Date Jul. 20 2010 20:17:10
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Arash
Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
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RE: British Petroleum Makes me SICK (in reply to Ailsa)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ailsa
Those were really interesting links Arash. I always find it interesting how the history taught at school is so different depending where you were brought up. In the UK we are taught nothing of that.
Well, i guess thats normal.
No one wants to admit having done bad things to others
quote:
The first time I was really aware of Iran was in 1979, with the Ayatollah Khomeini coming to power. That wasn't depicted positively because of the impact on women, but that possibly wasn't reported fairly, as I see that one of his daughters is a politician and university professor. Not exactly stuck in the house doing the domestic work then!!
Well, there are other important things which are not reported fairly. For instance the atomic issue is total BS.
Similar type of lies as before the iraqi war are spread now again and interestingly nearly everyone believes them again.
But anyway, the system in Iran after 1979 had (and has) many many bad elements too. I myself hate a huge part of the system.
Many of these Mullahs in Iran are simply A.holes and many rules in Iran are also total BS too.
Its always horrible when religion is mixed with goverment.
Religion must be banned to private life.
Anyway, what i learned in my life is that there is nothing nowhere in the world black or white but always pretty much grey.
Be it Iran, US, UK, Germany or anywhere else.
_____________________________
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Date Jul. 22 2010 5:39:34
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