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Posts: 15412
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to yohan)
Not much of a big deal, he already got a doctorate a few years ago in spain for same thing, and I think in Toronto or somewhere in Canada he was awarded the title of "GOD"....
Phd for honouring a person, is in my opinion the highest level of recognition someone can have in his field. Beign a Doctor in your field, just because you ARE! It also honours the institution that brings forth such an act.
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to yohan)
quote:
Absolutely not ****
Completely nonsense with a cap of rotten Kimchi on top.
Just name one guitar player in berkley who can understand the level of what Paco is doing. There is no player or person worth to name who would be able to estimate Pacos work. Its like a class of children in the Kindergarden gives a price for good work in aerospace engineering. Or the community of blind people gives a doctorate to Picasso. Thats nuts and a waste of time just to read one line about that in twitter.
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to yohan)
quote:
Completely nonsense with a cap of rotten Kimchi on top.
Just name one guitar player in berkley who can understand the level of what Paco is doing. There is no player or person worth to name who would be able to estimate Pacos work. Its like a class of children in the Kindergarden gives a price for good work in aerospace engineering. Or the community of blind people gives a doctorate to Picasso. Thats nuts and a waste of time just to read one line about that in twitter.
Kimchi is good!!
I agree with Doitsujin. Although I don't agree with his exemple. Only blind people could give a doctorate to picasso and his crap.
But anyway, if this makes flamenco and paco de lucia more "popular" and known by people, why not.
Seems to me this is the golden age of flamenco, with internet and charismatic personas like PDL.
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to yohan)
quote:
Doitsujin, you're working towards a PhD aren't you? I think I see where your anger is coming from.
Exactly. But its the same as the doctorate in medicine. Their doctorate is the same or even lower than a master degree in natural science (Which is even less than a diploma thesis in my country). But everybody including medical doctors think they "made it" and are now even to doctorates in natural sciences (What is not the case because you only get it in natural sciences for an accomplished research work in natural science and not for comparing two books during the semester break about 2 different methods to bandage a flesh wound in europe and in africa). If you do a real research work and accomplish it in medical science you are gonna be named Dr. Dr. what is also NUTS. Because its only even to the single Dr. in natural science. The sucking part is that nobody who isn't a scientist knows that usually and the medical Dr.s are somehow to dumb to get it or happy that nobody knows/cares. And the payment of these low level educated medical Dr.s in comparison to real Dr.s is also a problem. The whole academic title thing SUCKS BALLS! And giving a doctorate to a musician who just tried to make his life and also never "teached" what is the duty of every doctorate in science is ****ing hilarious!
quote:
Beign a Doctor in your field, just because you ARE!
Exactly that is the problem.
This doctorate to Paco reminds me on the day when Michael Jackson got a guitar from Paco as present. And M.Jackson just thought ok..put it to the rest of meaningless items in the cellar-stock-room of my house. Or some time ago when a known book author M. Reich-Ranicki refused a TV award and told everybody on stage that the actual-TV-program sucks and he doesn't want such a meaningless price from a bunch of .... Paco should refuse such honors if hes an authentic artist.
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to yohan)
Well, you can keep going and say the entire world system is all Bullsh!t.
I dont think its that deep. Paco is a great guitarist. One of the most infuential musicians on the planet. He's being recognized for that. End of story.
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to yohan)
quote:
Well, you can keep going and say the entire world system is all Bullsh!t.
Some things are just **** and other things are big ****. Honoring Paco with a Doctor degree belongs to the second category.
There is no need to tell the world that Paco is the greatest because everybody who would care already knows. The rest will stick to the great flamenco guitarist-god Ottmar Liebert, no matter how many degrees some "lets get in the news-people from berkley" are donating to Paco.
Ricardo! Thats my favorite scene from this spy-movie! Hahaha..
Posts: 4516
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to Doitsujin)
On one hand we complain daily here in the foro why everybody thinks that flamenco is Ottmar Liebert and Co. that they should know better, on the other hand we say that there is no need to "educate" people and there is no need that real flamenco gets more audience and appreciation (for instance through such events, which is a chance to spread the real flamenco to more people, even if the event itself should be a little bit comical).
So i think this fence-sitting attitude and all this grumbling also belongs to the category "****" (subcategory "small ****" though,,, so no hard feelings )
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to Doitsujin)
I'm all for PDL getting this award. He deserves it.
quote:
But its the same as the doctorate in medicine. Their doctorate is the same or even lower than a master degree in natural science (Which is even less than a diploma thesis in my country). But everybody including medical doctors think they "made it" and are now even to doctorates in natural sciences (What is not the case because you only get it in natural sciences for an accomplished research work in natural science and not for comparing two books during the semester break about 2 different methods to bandage a flesh wound in europe and in africa). If you do a real research work and accomplish it in medical science you are gonna be named Dr. Dr. what is also NUTS. Because its only even to the single Dr. in natural science.
I was surprised to find out how little PhD's in the natural sciences make. The father of a friend of mine didn't make enough to pay his kids' way through college. I met an MD, PhD researcher who had a family and was poor, too. It's odd because folks with a bachelor's degree in engineering generally do a lot better financially than people who have a doctorate in the natural sciences. These engineers find jobs working for businesses that have products and services to sell so the money is there. Money is harder to find for researchers and in the USA grants are critical. If you were over here I would suggest trying to get a grant now if only to learn the process. If you don't already know this there's some conflict between researchers who are good at getting grants and those who are better at research but awful at obtaining grant money. BTW: I have no problem with applied degrees--so MD, JD, etc are fine with me.
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to yohan)
@Pgh_flamenco
I'm in a graduate program half here half US. ;.) You´re right as researcher you don´t get much money, but the good thing is you dont need to stay in research. And Bachelors in natural science are basically nothing. Its not even a real academic grade... They are even less educated than TAs in a lab. I would say..with just a bachelor you can apply for a job as cashier in a local supermarket.
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to Doitsujin)
quote:
I'm in a graduate program half here half US. ;.) You´re right as researcher you don´t get much money, but the good thing is you dont need to stay in research. And Bachelors in natural science are basically nothing. Its not even a real academic grade... They are even less educated than TAs in a lab. I would say..with just a bachelor you can apply for a job as cashier in a local supermarket.
All bachelors degrees have lost their value in the last 30 years or so. Seems like a masters degree is the new bachelors degree. I've hung out with a lot of engineers and they do well financially--there are no cashiers among them. Many retire early, put all of their kids through college and live in upscale areas. In the USA I've been told an engineer learns all the math, etc he needs as an undergrad and a masters degree consists mostly of a project. One the engineers I know told me all a PhD can do is create a great looking document and that whatever they design will never work--just be another area of conflict motivated by competition as far as I'm concerned.
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to Guest)
Berklee college of music in Boston is well regarded, with lots of illustrious grads. Google it.
As for the "legitimacy" of honorary degrees, WTF? They're just honorary degrees, nobody confuses an honorary phD with an academic phD. The entire academic world gives tons of honorary degrees every year, always has and always will. This is just a way of acknowledging great achievement in one's field.
I don't know why people would assume nobody at Berklee "knows ****" about flamenco or Paco's contribution to it. Insulting people you don't know anything about because they are presumably stupid? Again, WTF?
Go to their website and do a search on flamenco. You may be pleasantly surprised.
RE: Paco de Lucia honoured at Berkle... (in reply to yohan)
I think if anybody deserves that degree in flamenco, it surely must be Paco de Lucia. They do know about flamenco in Berklee, and they do understand where Paco stands in comparison to the others.
I began studying at the New England Conservatory (1/4 mile away from Berklee) in 2000 and did not take a break until now. I just passed my exit exams and have a thesis to write to complete my Doctor of Musical Arts degree. In these years, even being a very good student I was, have I learned 1/1000 of what Paco knows about guitar and music? Yes, probably, but just. If I can get that degree with my pathetic knowledge, Paco is 1000 times more deserving of it.
Although, it will not impact his life at all, but it could make a huge difference in mine. I might just get a job somewhere in a state college and start making some money. That's all I need from this degree.
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