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Andy Culpepper

Posts: 2923
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to gj Michelob

I wasn't saying there is more than 1 guitar. It just sounds like that. If he says there's only one that's fine with me. It's definitely one of the stars of the CD.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 7:46:55
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1776
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, Hungary

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Andy Culpepper

so far i've only heard the sample, but it's definitely two guitars...i AM saying it and standing firmly by it...
if i recall correctly, Jai is not even a member here (at least definitely not a regular) and his composition was introduced here by a friend of his (KMII?) - which is fine, and the composition was probably not created specifically for this competition...
the decision is up to GJ, he's the one who created the rules in agreement with all of us, so what happens if Jai gets 1st-2nd-3rd place? if i said i wouldn't be bitter it would be a big lie...why? because i sat down composing knowing the rules and with one guitar in my mind, perhaps i could've come up with something more interesting/popular with two guitars, but my hands were tied in that respect...
but whatever the decision, i'll accept it...
no matter what, the bottom line is there's been much sweat going into this competition by all of us in it and we should be proud of it - and hopefully next year there'll be even more competitors, and an even higher standard of music if it's possible...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 8:08:22
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to gj Michelob

That's a very "gotcha" thing to say. I'm not entirely certain it is appropriate to make such accusations based on a 29 second sample.

it sounds that way because of some mastering work I did. I widened the stereo image of the recording so the guitar which originally occupied the middle of the image is now spread farther left and farther right than it previously was. this is a trick I use instead of compression to make peaks in the playing (golpe, picado) less harsh without losing punch. that's part of it.

Also, Jai is a good player and a good composer. he has demonstrated throughout the piece that his technique allows him to produce multiple timbres and multiple voices on the guitar. As any good guitarist should be able to do. He is very good at it. you should be applauding his skill.

that and it's a damn good tune.

by the way, you are absolutely wrong about there being two guitars. listen to the sustain on the single notes. if there were two guitars he'd let those notes ring out longer. Oh, and having spent hours and hours with it I MIGHT HAVE NOTICED.

poor sportsmanship will not win you votes mr. hendrix. I'd advise you to keep your reservations about other's pieces to a minimum and focus on how you can improve and grow.

p.s. don't try to start sh*t til you get all of the information first

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 8:10:16
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1776
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, Hungary

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to HemeolaMan

i'd like to see a tab for that then, or a video, because no matter how well you do your job, it doesn't seem possible to play this tune on one guitar - arpeggio and picado together etc....

ps: i'm not trying to start ****, nor does Andy i think, we're just bringing out a valid point...
ps2: in my humblest of opinions, it doesn't matter how good the tune is if there's a certain set of rules and it doesn't fit in it...i can still be awesome, nobody denies that, or the job you did on the piece (all the pieces in fact)

but let's not talk about this now, we can have this discussion when the competition's over!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 8:31:25
 
bursche

Posts: 1180
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ

Ask Jai.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 8:47:48
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1776
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, Hungary

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to HemeolaMan

okay trying to reply to your now edited post:

- i do think it's two guitars, i can be persuaded of the opposite with a video performance...
you're missing the point completely and getting personal here, please don't do that...and don't give unspoken words in my mouth...nobody doubts Jai's talent, his skills, his abilities as a composer...and i do applaud his musicianship...and if you read again my post carefully you can also see why i think it's an honest mistake in his part...

if you knew me better, or at least if you ever paid attention to my posts here during the nearly 4 years, you wouldn't say the things you did...i'm competitive yes, but i've never ever been an unfair player...and i do care about my own playing more than others', but i always try to be helpful to others, if i can...

repeating myself, but you're missing the point...the observation is not about the quality of the music, the skills of the artist, but the relation of the piece of music to the predefined sets of rules...so far there have been 4 people speaking about this subject, 3 agree it's two guitars (one of them on fb), you're the only one who says it's one...i respect your opinion, you please respect ours, we're not trying to start a fight here...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 8:50:38
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ

I've been listening to the original mp3 "as supplied" and although the piece is certainly "busy", I can't hear the overt use of 2 guitars as the thing is in an open tuning which can allow you to seemingly do two things at once with a clever arrangement...
However...it certainly doesn't sound like a guy sitting in his bedroom with a cheap mike or anything and certainly sounds edited, eq'ed and ovehauled by someone who knows what they are doing...but I believe that's still in the rules. (?)

It's hard to say if "reinforcement" guitar has been used or not.
(That is, an extra track (or tracks) added to tastefully "emphasise and "add body" here and there...but NOT obviously playing on top of a guitar "backing" track.)

Best to ask Jai himself IMO.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 9:22:49
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Andy Culpepper

I'll soften my statements to allow the possibility of a second guitar. but i worked with the piece for a very long time and at no point in careful listening did it even cross my mind that there was a second guitar.

I have a degree in classical guitar and getting two or three different simultaneous sounds like that out of a guitar is not even considered exceptional in that field. it's par.

So, while i may be grossly overestimating jai's ability (i think not considering the rest of the piece) i am fairly confident that it is one guitar. It may be two guitars done so tastefully that it's hard to know. but i have a feeling it's one.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 10:57:33
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1776
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, Hungary

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to HemeolaMan

thank you for understanding our point, Hem!

you see, i haven't heard the whole composition yet and if you only listen to the the first part of the sample, that's the part that got my attention - as i've never heard someone play such nice picados while while playing arpeggio accompaniment to themselves...(and not even "not nice" picados for that matter)

i think next year more guitars should be allowed, it'd still be composition challenge, allows more creativity and there wouldn't be arguments like this...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 11:22:09
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ

personally i really think the one guitar thing is kind of limiting.

i would love to hear someone bring in a steel string and do a tasteful duet or a Portuguese guitar or something with some cool fresh percussion with a pump and breathe kinda thing going on

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 11:45:14
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to HemeolaMan

Yeah in the future i guess, since its composition challenge and trying to present a musical idea, has not much to do with a technical abilities challenge...whatever instruments, however many tracks etc..one uses should be at his discression......afterall you are not just compeating with fellow members but every cd on cd baby.....and general public judge a track on the overal idea...not on how many guitars where used, or what samples were used, or how many takes there were etc


would avoid this kind of unecesarry issues


again well done you guys, 1 guitar or 2 guitars whatever ...congratulations to all, really well done

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 16:58:41
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to xirdneH_imiJ

quote:

the decision is up to GJ


I have sent an email to Jai, asking him to clarify whether one or two guitars were used in his composition and recording.

It is difficult to discern the sounds occassionally, and one could easily hear that a second guitar is helping. However, I agree with your view, Richard, that if Jai had in fact used a second guitar it would have been because of a good faith misunderstanding of the rules. A factor I would weigh seriously, before disqualifying anyone, at this juncture.

However, you did the right thing when raising the issue and I appreciate that your dispute concerns the integrity of the challenge rather than your own interest.

Future challenges, and we all hope there shall be more, will certainly value different aspects of composition, performance and even of recording. This competition focuses on one-man-one-guitar and the music we compose and play "al-one"

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 13 2010 19:01:37
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Andy Culpepper

Okay Guys!

Let there be no doubt about whether Jai plays his composition on one guitar. He has played it for me many times. Infact, i even have a video of him playing it on my computer. I will not upload it without his permission though. I'm sure he will be happy to upload one for you.

Make no mistakes about Jai's ability. He is well known as an amazing guitar player among his peers in Australia. Darwin international guitar festival finalist along with many other guitar prizes... etc...

All accusing him of cheating will eat their words.

Not only can he play it, but he can play it with an even better feel than the recording.

Also, I told him about the competition and he recorded that song especially for it.

Very disappointing for people to respond this way

His two guitar part recordings are on another level.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 0:16:58
 
KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Andy Culpepper

I called Jai and he said i could upload this. This is the section in dispute. Jai made this slow video for me to work on a second part. Enjoy!

I will upload it in the Uploads section as this doesn't work.

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 0:55:31
 
KMMI77

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 1:00:16
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to KMMI77

I want to say that REGARDLESS of whether this is recorded with a second guitar, i find this behaviour of posting accusations like this openly absolutely intolerable. It is ok to have doubts and in this case they are justified coz the preview really sounds like overdubbed. But how to deal with it. First thing to do is to get in contact with the organization, so that they can contact the contestant about it. Another thing is to simply try to replay the critical places to get more security in the judgment of it. Without having done that i find it a bit irresponsible to state such things openly.

You need to upload in the upload section or use a hoster like mediafire.com

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Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 1:01:37
 
Jai

 

Posts: 5
Joined: Mar. 24 2010
 

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Andy Culpepper

Hey everyone,

Its a compliment that some of you think my Tangos "Dark Start" is two guitars, but like HemeolaMan was saying if you have a background in classical guitar you probably wouldn't be so impressed.
I recorded a video a few weeks ago of me playing it at 65% speed solo with no cajon, i recorded it just so I could remember the song and give a copy to Kris to work out a second part. Kris will upload it for you.

FYI. The song was recorded over 2 or 3 days at my place using an AKG C1000 condensor mic, going into my computer via an M-Audio ProFire 610 audio interface. Cubase 3 was used to edit the song.

Good job on the mixing HemeolaMan I think you did a great job.

A big thanks to everyone involved in making the CD. I'm just about to download all the songs for myself, but thought I would post this to put your minds a ease.

Jai
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 1:17:19
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1776
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, Hungary

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Jai

thanks for the clarification and i offer my sincere apologies, i hope you understand you weren't accused of cheating of any sort on my part, the whole conversation was about a technicality...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 1:20:03
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Andy Culpepper

quote:

Very disappointing for people to respond this way,


Well it is greate playing and greate composition, it was unfortunate, one could get offended and upset...but i like the other option, no need to get offended when you should be proud.. as Jai says.. just take it as a compliment..it dosent need to be an insult if you dont take it as one

Hopefully noones feelings were hurt and whomever was asking has his mind put at eaze..congratulations Jay, inspirational stuff

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Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 1:29:44
 
Jai

 

Posts: 5
Joined: Mar. 24 2010
 

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Andy Culpepper

No problems.

I can see why some people would be upset if I came 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, because I only joined this forum a few days before I entered the competition.
If this is the case, just pretend I'm not in the competition and let the other guitarists get the places. I'm still on the CD. Thats the main thing for me. Maybe next year, a rule could be put in that you have to be a member for one month and made 20 posts if this is a concern.

Jai
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 1:46:14
 
Jai

 

Posts: 5
Joined: Mar. 24 2010
 

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Florian

thanks florian and others who liked my song.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 1:49:04
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Jai

quote:

I only joined this forum a few days before I entered the competition.
If this is the case, just pretend I'm not in the competition and let the other guitarists get the places



I hope not, thats not fair, i hope and think we can be bigger then that...how long you have been here has nothing to do with the challenge...you have done everything required, if that would have been an issue it should have come up before all this


anyway they might have asked, fair enough, they had a question... but i assure you they are gentleman

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Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 1:54:57
 
xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1776
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, Hungary

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Jai

no, that's not a problem at all, just stick around and share your music!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 1:58:47
 
aloysius

Posts: 233
Joined: Apr. 7 2005
From: Adelaide, Australia

RE: FINALLY it is here: 2010 Composi... (in reply to gj Michelob

Bought the album the other day, great stuff everyone! Thanks Jai for talking about how you recorded your track, as I was going to ask you anyway, very nice sound reminds me of Vicente's recorded sound.

Not sure of my favourite track yet as I have several favourites. Thanks to everyone involved!

Aloysius.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 4:44:30
 
tantrum

 

Posts: 31
Joined: Nov. 4 2009
From: Switzerland

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Andy Culpepper

OK, I did my vote after several solid hours listening. I found it hard to pick a favourite.

I deleted two tracks pretty much straight away, but the other six I like a lot. I felt two of them stood out for my own personal taste and I've bought them for download separately/aka voted.

Since the link's on a different page now I repeat it here for the benefit of others:

https://www.cdbaby.com/cd/foroflamenco
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 5:47:15
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Jai

quote:

Maybe next year, a rule could be put in that you have to be a member for one month and made 20 posts if this is a concern.

Jai


To the contrary, one of the goals of this project was proselytism. I did not realize you had just become a member, Jai; so while I am disappointed that some of the Foro’s dignitaries have not participated, I am pleased that the competition has attracted you, a very skilled musician, into our community.

My original vision was for a collection of unaccompanied guitar solos, but pressed by the insisting request to allow percussions, I revised such original rule (a person no less than At_Leo asked… I just had to say yes). I think that the sound of percussions blends so well in your recording that it may have contributed to this misunderstanding.

However, now that I have the entire CD, I would agree that the album is more complete the way it is.

Jai, I am pleased you are now part of foroflamenco and am really grateful that you have contributed a wonderful composition to the Challenge.

Please know that your "word"would have sufficed to dispel any doubts.
Yet, I think we should all try to advertize this CD including by posting YouTube Videos of our compositions.

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 5:59:31
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to tantrum

quote:

I deleted two tracks pretty much straight away, but the other six I like a lot. I felt two of them stood out for my own personal taste and I've bought them for download separately/aka voted.


Even though I fear I maybe one of the unfortunate deletions, I would really love to read your thoughts. I opened a separate thread for Comments, Praise and Critique. If I understand it correctly you voted for two compositions (after buying the entire album) and deleted two. You might have a well formed opinion about the CD, will you share it?

[incidentally, if you deleted my music, I will not be upset at all. Falsely cool as this may sound, in this instance to me the CD project is more important than my own music]

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 6:46:02
 
bursche

Posts: 1180
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to gj Michelob

Haha. Jai is a killer player and unmasked us all as total ballsuckers!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 9:15:34
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

quote:

There’s some incredible talent on this site! GJ, you could be PDL’s tour manager next time around. Send him an email and one of your soulful Tarantas to seal the deal.


Not entirely a bad idea.

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gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 15:04:57
 
tantrum

 

Posts: 31
Joined: Nov. 4 2009
From: Switzerland

RE: UPDATE: Composition Challenge (in reply to gj Michelob

quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

quote:

I deleted two tracks pretty much straight away, but the other six I like a lot. I felt two of them stood out for my own personal taste and I've bought them for download separately/aka voted.


Even though I fear I maybe one of the unfortunate deletions, I would really love to read your thoughts. I opened a separate thread for Comments, Praise and Critique. If I understand it correctly you voted for two compositions (after buying the entire album) and deleted two. You might have a well formed opinion about the CD, will you share it?


Ooh, I'm very scared to do this! To lessen the fear, I'll post here rather than in the comments thread.

I didn't want to comment on the tracks because a) the composers and performers are here on this forum! and b) I am a flamenco newbie. Case in point: in November 2009 I didn't even know what a rasgueado was. And in November 2011 I imagine I still won't be able to play one properly.

I am in awe of the abilities of all of the performers!

So, with that proviso (i.e. I don't know what I'm talking about at all!), I will admit I dropped track 3 (Mi Amor) because of the percussion. I am listening to the songs at work through not-exactly-high end headphones. I found the percussion too loud and it was pummeling my right eardrum. The guitar I liked, but found the track too hard to listen to.

I dropped track 1 (Dark Start) partly because I also found the percussion a bit too loud and I don't really like the tangos style. It's not sad-sounding enough. Purely personal taste! The playing and guitar sound are both great on this track.

The two songs I voted for were De Sevilla a Jerez and Nos Miran. I can't really comment on why so much, I just found them the most appealing somehow. I think the sound quality on Nos Miran was probably a little poorer than the others, but I found it the catchiest, even humming parts of it to myself in the shower this morning.

Amarguillo, Victor, Flor and Crescent Moon Serenade are all very good too and will remain in my small but expanding flamenco MP3 library forever. The Serenade particularly bursts out of its box in the beginning with a dynamic and intense sound! It was also hard not to vote for Victor.

I'd say overall I was surprised at how good the tracks were.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 14 2010 23:34:16
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