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Alatriste

 

Posts: 91
Joined: Dec. 23 2009
 

Ven Te pa' Madrid 

It's the third song on this video clip. Originally scored by Ketama, one of my favorite groups and songs, which is a fusion song in itself. Here is another fusion version by Ostia. This trio performs in the Los Angeles area. I believe Armando plays a Delgado guitar. Check out the dude on the percussion.

Just drag the scroll past the other two songs if not interested, but those are pretty good Latin songs in themselves.

Armando Figueroa & Ostia
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 12:14:36
 
JasonMcGuire

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RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Alatriste



The real thing is a LOT better....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 12:24:01
 
Alatriste

 

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RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Alatriste



And here is the legendary Ketama singing it along with Antonio Flores.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 12:24:59
 
Alatriste

 

Posts: 91
Joined: Dec. 23 2009
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to JasonMcGuire

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonMcGuire



The real thing is a LOT better....


Yep. I like the version with Flores. Wish I could have caught these guys live.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 12:27:08
 
Alatriste

 

Posts: 91
Joined: Dec. 23 2009
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Alatriste

And here is the legendary Salsa King from Venezuela, Oscar de Leon, singing Llorarás. If you follow this song, you will see how masterful Ketama was in fusing it into the second part of Ven Te pa' Madrid. It was brilliant!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 12:32:29
 
JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Alatriste

Sol y Luna Band was a flamenco/latin fusion band in the 90's.... they did a great version of the tune...

I played it with them at their reunion concert a couple of years back. Me,Don Fontowitz, Jose Blanco, Michael Spiro, John Calloway, Anthony Blea, Danilo Paiz, David Belove and Edgardo Cambon.... a great band.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 12:38:02
 
JasonMcGuire

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RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to JasonMcGuire

As far as Ketama goes.... My favorite tune of theirs is No Estamos Lokos...



or Kanela y Menta



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 12:44:37
 
Alatriste

 

Posts: 91
Joined: Dec. 23 2009
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to JasonMcGuire

Wow! Very cool gig that must have been Jason.

The other great thing I love about Ven Te pa' Madrid is that the lyrics fit so well. I mean merging those lyrics is exactly perfect...

Part 1 from Ketama. Hey come to Madrid your buddies are here waiting for you, don't worry about leaving. Part 2 from Llorarás, I'm gone Honey, you will cry and nobody is there to console you.

Lol! The greatest break-up song on Earth!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 12:46:27
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to JasonMcGuire

Wow Antonio looks so young !!! I love this track, saw them play here in Granada a good ten years ago. I was recently at the Sevilla studio of Ratones Colarados, and Antonio was there. We all got big hugs but I was too shy to have my photo taken with him. Instead have a really creepy one with my and Jesus Quintero

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 12:47:58
 
JasonMcGuire

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RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Kate

Hey Kate,

Why would you say a fusion like the one done by Ketama could not be considered Fakemenco™?



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 12:53:14
 
JasonMcGuire

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RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to JasonMcGuire

Here is my teacher and dear friend Pedro Cortes doing an impromptu jam with Antonio in Mexico....



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 12:57:08
 
Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to JasonMcGuire

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonMcGuire

Hey Kate,

Why would you say a fusion like the one done by Ketama could not be considered Fakemenco™?




Porque son flamencos. Olé !

_____________________________

Emilio Maya Temple
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CA6OBC
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/emiliomaya
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 13:01:49
 
Mike_Kinny

 

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to JasonMcGuire

I know you said they know flamenco perfectly well but add them to your list anyway.

Sorry couldn't resist.
[Ducking and running like hell.]
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 13:08:32
 
JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Kate

Ole! Kate... couldn't have said it better.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 13:08:45
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to JasonMcGuire

quote:

Hey Kate,

Why would you say a fusion like the one done by Ketama could not be considered Fakemenco™?

quote:

Porque son flamencos. Olé !


...and they never advertised it as flamenco, because they know the difference.

_____________________________

Me da igual. La música es música.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 13:29:37
 
Alatriste

 

Posts: 91
Joined: Dec. 23 2009
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Alatriste

For those new and not familiar with the group. Some quick background from the link. Caveats on the accuracy and some of what is written may be opinion. http://www.esflamenco.com/bio/en10233.html

Antonio Carmona. Voice
José Miguel Carmona. Guitar
Juan Carmona. Guitar

The leaders of what has been called New Flamenco, they brought a style that was somewhere between flamenco and pop salsa onto the musical scene that drew as much criticism as praise, but which has won over the young public and has given them millions of sales. In their records they have mixed flamenco with salsa, Brazilian music, reggae, funk, jazz and, in their latest work Dame la Mano, they have been so bold as to mix it with hip hop and house.

Ketama was formed in Madrid in the early eighties, taking its name from a well-known valley in Morocco. The Sorderas and Habichuelas come from two great gypsy flamenco families, and the initiative to set up the band came from the guitarists, José Soto, Sorderita, and Juan Carmona. They were joined by Ray Heredia, the son of the bailaor Josele. Their first work, Ketama, was released in 1985, although it was recorded two years earlier. It was the great gamble by the independent company that was the driving force behind the Jóvenes Flamencos record label, and in a few years it bore its fruits.

First Ray Heredia and later José Soto left the band, and it was joined by José Miguel Carmona, on guitar, and Antonio Carmona, as a lead singer. They earned international recognition with their third record, Songhai, a fusion of flamenco with Toumani Diabate's African kora, which was praised in reviews in The Times and The International Herald Tribune. Nonetheless, their ultimate success was De akí a Ketama, which was recorded live with the participation, among others, of Antonio Flores and Antonio Vega. It sold over a million copies, it spent a year in the Spanish hit parade, and won the Ondas award for Best Album (1995), Best Spanish Group (1996) and the Premio de la Música in the Best Song category in 1996 with the song No estamos lokos. In the same year they contributed to the film Alma Gitana with two songs. In 1998, the band won the Ondas award for the Best Album again, this time with Konfusión, which sold 300,000 copies.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 13:34:06
 
JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Mike_Kinny

quote:

I know you said they know flamenco perfectly well but add them to your list anyway.

Sorry couldn't resist.
[Ducking and running like hell.]


Just wear a helmet.

I like Ketama, but there are many flamenco's who don't. No need to run for cover.

_____________________________

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http://flamenco-lessons.blogspot.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 14:16:24
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Alatriste

Ven Te pa' mierda."TM"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 14:41:33
 
JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

Ven Te pa' mierda."TM"


See what I mean™

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 14:48:26
 
Alatriste

 

Posts: 91
Joined: Dec. 23 2009
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

Ven Te pa' mierda."TM"

"Ven Te pa' la mierda" is usually the way it is said.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 15:55:48
 
Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Alatriste

this whole thread belongs to off topic section ™ (IMO)

i mean, come on, this salsa music from this "Oscar de Leon" guy is nice , but has nothing to do with flamenco.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 16:47:00
 
Alatriste

 

Posts: 91
Joined: Dec. 23 2009
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Arash

I don't mind if the thread is moved there.

The only purpose of showing the Oscar de Leon music (I take it you speak Spanish) is to show how parts of the melody and the entire set of lyrics from that Salsa song (Llorara) were used in the second half of the Flamenco song by Ketama. As I said up thread, I think it shows a pretty good example of how a flamenco (Ketama) can fuse certain elements of another type of music into Flamenco in a successful manner that doesn't pervert Flamenco itself. Therefore IMO it is relevant. Personally I think Ketama improved on Llorara by fusing it into Ven Te pa' Madrid. Some will agree, some won't.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 24 2010 17:01:33
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Arash

quote:

this whole thread belongs to off topic section ™ (IMO)


I think the whole thread belongs in the dustbin personally.

If it starts getting heated then that's where it's going.



cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 1:33:51
 
Mike_Kinny

 

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Ron.M

quote:


If it starts getting heated then that's where it's going.


Why don't admins like heated discussions?

Heated discussions, although often about less serious things, attract people and make the atmosphere more alive. You suddenly see many members logged in and posts show up almost at the speed of a live chat.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 3:16:01
 
JasonMcGuire

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RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Mike_Kinny

I have been sensored and its uncool if you ask me...

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http://www.CaminosFlamencos.com/
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 3:23:52
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to JasonMcGuire

quote:

I have been sensored and its uncool if you ask me...


Jason,

You are certainly not censored on your own site....and as Mike says, a heated discussion with lots of arguing, swearing and funny pictures attracts a lot of folk.

So why not start a "toilet wall" type open public forum on Flamenco-Lessons?

Or do you maybe see your site as a "serious Flamenco learning resource" and this site as a place where folk just hang out for a laugh and fun and jokes?

I definitely like a laugh myself and a funny thread every now and then...but lately it seems to me practically every other discussion should be in the "Off Topic" section, with the Admin PM inbox full of "Report Abuse" complaints from both sides and Simon emailing me asking, "WHAT THE F*'s GOING ON!!....?"

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 3:58:29
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Alatriste

quote:

As I said up thread, I think it shows a pretty good example of how a flamenco (Ketama) can fuse certain elements of another type of music into Flamenco in a successful manner that doesn't pervert Flamenco itself.


Sorry missed I guess the deleted thread, but this is just your opinion, and not a consensus of flamenco aficionados. I would say the majority of aficionados don't even consider this a flamenco fusion, rather, simply canciones that have some flamenco and salsa flavor. But I am sure there are also those that are not happy about flamencos doing pop music, and actually DO consider this type of thing a "perversion" of sorts. but more because of who they are, not what they are singing.

And a better example of a flamenco fusing in latin or mexican songs would be say Paquera doing Rancheras por bulerias, or Camaron's famous huapango of mexico stuck into his bulerias.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 5:23:16
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to JasonMcGuire

quote:

I have been sensored and its uncool if you ask me...


Hey it is has happened to the best of us, but you can understand what it would be like to have anarchy. Only times I was censored was because I got emotional, it is understandable to me. That is why the internet gods invented "blog".

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 5:25:15
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Alatriste

quote:

As I said up thread, I think it shows a pretty good example of how a flamenco (Ketama) can fuse certain elements of another type of music into Flamenco in a successful manner that doesn't pervert Flamenco itself.

But it's not flamenco, and (as I said up thread) Ketama themselves never said it was flamenco. They were careful to distinguish between their own background in real flamenco, and the music they made as a group, which was a kind of pop music combining various elements and influences.

Josemi:
"the music that we make is universal music and it is not flamenco puro, nor do we want to get into controversies of that type."

"it's 'internationalist pop' made by three flamencos"

"What Ketama has is information about what flamenco puro is, and setting out from there, we make another type of music"

"we don't want to go 'nuevo flamenco' or any of that"

Entrevista a Ketama
-------------------------------------------------------

Oh yeah - this thread belongs in the Off Topic department.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 7:47:31
 
JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007
 

RE: Ven Te pa' Madrid (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

So why not start a "toilet wall" type open public forum on Flamenco-Lessons?


I did, by using my name and linking my blogs to my lesson site. I use my name and put it on the line to voice an opinion that I feel strongly about and that I think is an important point to make for the future of flamenco at least in my country.

I have endured MANY threats and abuses BEFORE I ever chose to voice my Fakemenco™ opinions. Of course that goes with the territory of sticking your neck out as a public figure. I have aside from defending myself against some anonymous members, contributed a lot of valuable information. I do remember CANTE being a rarely visited term around here with the exception of Sean and Norman... forgive me if I left out anyone.... I am very happy that it has become an exciting and VERY active part of this place.

This is a place for many things. Joking, learning, arguing, respecting, making mistakes, apologizing, sharing, defending..... just like my home. Perhaps I should only offer information and no humor and I should indeed HOLD MY TONGue when it comes to .....nevermind...... yes just post information about how to play. Thats SO flamenco. Only about playing.....

I have hit the ABUSE button twice in my life.

Don't you think with the amount of trash that has been thrown at me, that I could have hit it a lot more?

If you are telling me that I have to let people insult me and I can't reply then please next time.... try to sensor them before I get a chance to respond to the BS. I'm not planning on backing down from any douchebags who want to talk crap about me anytime soon.

Unfortunately this is the place where people choose to attack me.

Of course Ron, if you ask me to leave, I will.

Jason

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 25 2010 9:14:12
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