RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe

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mht2

Posts: 22
Joined: Nov. 24 2007

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 25 2010 9:36:39

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 9:25:45

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Grisha)

quote:

Paco is a great musician with excellent ear and impeccable technique. He also has many chances to sample the best guitars (and take them home, if he likes). That's why he is performing and recording on Conde and DeVoe. Both are great guitars, very different from each other, both have individual strengths. Which one is superior? It's apples and oranges. I just know that if I had a chance to buy a Conde, I would, but if it meant trading in my DeVoe for that Conde, I would not do it. My DeVoe is a perfect match for what I want to express right now, and this guitar taught me a lot of subtle nuances that my playing was lacking lately (due to muscle strains in my hands). I absolutely love the sound I get from this new guitar, and only wonder how it will sound in a little while. Perhaps, my demands will change one day, but I don't see it happening soon, and I will not part with this DeVoe in any case.

Dear Grisha, many thanks for your post, I appreciate it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 10:45:08

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Now I listened to the performance with the Devoe guitar and to the performance with his Conde..And I must say, sorry guy but IMO the Devoe sounded a little cheap in comparison to the Conde Paco usually uses. Dont get crazy now its my personal feeling you can have a different opinion.

Dont understand me wrong. I dont write that to put Devoe down or to upset other people who like Devoe guitars. Its to the topic. We brought up several arguments why Paco will use the Devoe more in future or not in future.. IMO the sound is a negative point.. the sound just doesnt fit to Pacos "known sound", his aire the people are used to.. So,..he wont change that and go on using Conde and not Devoe.

It's your opinion and I respect it. But maybe this time Paco is looking
for a different sound rather than his "known sound", what's your opinion?.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 10:51:49

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Paco is a great musician with excellent ear and impeccable technique. He also has many chances to sample the best guitars (and take them home, if he likes). That's why he is performing and recording on Conde and DeVoe. Both are great guitars, very different from each other, both have individual strengths. Which one is superior? It's apples and oranges.

That Paco is a great musician with excellent ear and impeccable technique is somehow not so new to me... please dont use it to underline "your" point of view in the following sentences. Did you have a "sell a product through mindmanipulation" workshop in past? :.D This introduction was actually very good.

That Paco can take home any guitar because hes famous is no argument for the fact that he uses a conde and a devoe guitar.

I agree with you aout the point that both guitars conde and devoe are very different guitars (well...as most of condes are different from each other but even much more different are conde and devore and carillo and marvi etc.).
Both are tools and you can test their playability's and sound production and of course compare them in detail. Thats the reason why we actually test guitars before buying... If they would not be compareable it would be pretty useless to test..So its absolutely not as apples and oranges to compare em and rate.

Its apples and oranges which one you think is the superior or me or Paco. Thats an individual thing. But every single person can work out a very sharp, clear "personal" rating of both guitars.
And in my case Conde is the superior guitar in sound. In playability I have no idea.

Well,..in the saura movie the devoe sounded excellent. Maybe the sound of the concert I saw with the crappy youtube-quality was just bad... So lets say,..my opinion about devoe is undecided at the current timepoint.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 11:10:07

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to mht2)

quote:

It's your opinion and I respect it. But maybe this time Paco is looking
for a different sound rather than his "known sound", what's your opinion?.

Thank you! Im sorry for talking bad here about devoe.. I came to the conclusion in my last post that I know a **** about devoe guitars.. My knowledge is based on a bad quality youtubevideo and an excellent quality saura video. Listening to the devoe in the saura video makes me interested in testing a devoe. I will try to do that in future.

My opinion to your question. Well,..I actually dont know why Paco used the devoe guitar. If I would go on doing the dick I would say.. he dindnt want to transport his Conte to this country which name nobody can write without looking it up. He would have had a bad feeling that some rednecks would steal his guitar from stage over there... I wonder why there was no fence between Paco and the audience that prevents thrown bottles flying on stage..

And without doin the funny dick..I think.. He must like the guitar or somebody paid for that. But,..as I wrote I have absolutely no idea and dont want to comment on that without any evidence.

I hope we are clear now... I changed my mind about devoe. ;.)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 11:30:12

Mike_Kinny

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Nov. 26 2010 21:27:16

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 11:31:24

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to mht2)

quote:

Based on a couple of youtube videos? The recording was so bad that I saw no point listening to them. At the VERY least it must be a studio recording comparing them side by side.

Read more carefully..man guys...always always always.... read more carefully... damit! hehhe... I wrote exactly that in both of my posts just above your comment.. tststs (Well,..I think a serious comparison can only be done with listening live without electronics involved to the guitars. Yep..side by side.

Maybe you dindt refresh the thread before posting....so I forgive you.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 11:36:58

Mike_Kinny

Posts: 689
Joined: Feb. 12 2009

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Read more carefully..man guys...always always always.... read more carefully... damit! hehhe... I wrote exactly that in both of my posts just above your comment.. tststs (Well,..I think a serious comparison can only be done with listening live without electronics involved to the guitars. Yep..side by side.

Maybe you dindt refresh the thread before posting....so I forgive you.

Forgiveness accepted.

By the way is that you in the avatar picture? It suits your righteous tone well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 11:54:48

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to mht2)

quote:

By the way is that you in the avatar picture? It suits your righteous tone well.

Yes,..I chose it coz it fits pretty well. hehe.. No its not me but with such sunglasses and the hair waxed to the back it gets close.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 12:35:05

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

I hope we are clear now... I changed my mind about devoe. ;.)

Good, who knows, one day you might get a Devoe guitar and I something else.

there are a few great flamenco luthiers mainly in Spain and a couple in the USA, maybe there are some less known in other places that I don't know yet. Obviously those Conde guitars specially constructed for Paco de Lucia are great. But it must be something really special to those Devoe guitars that Maestro Paco has chosen to play them among so many other well known makers.
He has so many instruments and all are great guitars. but he chooses Lester
Devoe guitars as his second choice. It tells me alot about the quality.

conclusion: Lester Devoe is currently one of the top flamenco luthiers
in the world. comparing prices, his instruments are great
value for the money. mundo-flamenco will receive a couple
of Devoe guitars soon, lets ask Johannes when he has them.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2010 21:49:13

stratos13

Posts: 222
Joined: Apr. 11 2005
From: Αθήνα

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to buleria74)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buleria74

conclusion: Lester Devoe is currently one of the top flamenco luthiers
in the world. comparing prices, his instruments are great
value for the money. mundo-flamenco will receive a couple
of Devoe guitars soon, lets ask Johannes when he has them.

I really like these unbiased comments.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2010 6:40:49

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to buleria74)

damm! its too easy to make jokes.
I honestly did not realize that this thread has 5 pages. Thats insane. I think we have understood by now that Lester DeVoe guitars have a sweet and sonorous sound.
And this is not even the Product reviews section

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2010 6:53:57

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to mht2)

Damn! Earlier on I had wondered if paco switched guitars because he always complained the Conde was hard to play. And an other thread they discussed Paco's technique as though he were losing it in his old age. But just watched this and I think I take it back, and others who slagged on his playing nowadays might want to think twice too!

That is faster then his tempo used in the 90's, that picado at 4:25 is just ripping and perfect.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2010 7:38:05

CuerdasDulces

Posts: 277
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Toronto

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m76QgKGi-Q4

Man why is he so serious when he's done playing?
I would have a big smile on my face because that turned out so well
and because I just did a super fast picado that no one can EVER do lol.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2010 10:40:25

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to XXX)

quote:

damm! its too easy to make jokes.
I honestly did not realize that this thread has 5 pages. Thats insane. I think we have understood by now that Lester DeVoe guitars have a sweet and sonorous sound.
And this is not even the Product reviews section

It is an interesting subject, I believe it will go on another couple of pages.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2010 10:46:27

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Damn! Earlier on I had wondered if paco switched guitars because he always complained the Conde was hard to play. And an other thread they discussed Paco's technique as though he were losing it in his old age. But just watched this and I think I take it back, and others who slagged on his playing nowadays might want to think twice too!

I'm off topic here-

I notice that Paco does have a different aire than he used to, there's a softness sometimes, a different dynamic. In this video you can see he still has power when he wants though he doesn't play full on all the way through like he used to.
Maybe rather than old age or loss of technique he is simply choosing to play like this? I wonder who he is influenced by, perhaps he heard a younger player like Diego del Morao and was inspired by that looser, laid back feeling? Any thoughts?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2010 11:10:50

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to orsonw)

quote:

I notice that Paco does have a different aire than he used to, there's a softness sometimes, a different dynamic. In this video you can see he still has power when he wants though he doesn't play full on all the way through like he used to.
Maybe rather than old age or loss of technique he is simply choosing to play like this? I wonder who he is influenced by, perhaps he heard a younger player like Diego del Morao and was inspired by that looser, laid back feeling? Any thoughts?

I remember from an interview they made couple of years ago, Maestro Paco
said : con la edad se pierde un poco la tecnica pero tocando mas agusto.

well, this tells you pretty much everything. if he is influenced I have no
idea. but definitely he has changed abit, also the discussion about
Lester Devoe guitars, maybe those guitars are slightly closer to his
current taste. I don't believe he will give up his earlier instruments but
something is changing, that's for sure.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2010 0:55:41

chapman_g

Posts: 227
Joined: Apr. 11 2007

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to buleria74)

OrsonW and Buleria74,
Paco has been playing with that kind of sometimes less aggressive groove that I think you are getting at some of the times for many years, and with his conde. Check out the live in Germany DVD from 96. Diego del Morao was 16 and probably soaking up what Paco was doing not the other way around. Nobody exists in a vaccum including, Paco so I am not saying he is not influenced by others around him younger or older, but in this case it is not Diego Del Morao or the Devoe guitar that is responsible for Paco's:

"I notice that Paco does have a different aire than he used to, there's a softness sometimes, a different dynamic. In this video you can see he still has power when he wants though he doesn't play full on all the way through like he used to."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2010 4:25:51

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to chapman_g)

quote:

Paco has been playing with that kind of sometimes less aggressive groove that I think you are getting at some of the times for many years

first time he played slightly more laid back was cositas buenas, so I can't
agree with you that he did that 1996, absolutely not, you should watch more
stuff from Paco to understand it.

As I wrote earlier, Maestro Paco did mention himself about this after
cositas buenas concerts.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2010 4:48:26

chapman_g

Posts: 227
Joined: Apr. 11 2007

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to buleria74)

Okay yes. The First time Paco ever played more laid back was with Cositas Buenas, and since then he has listened to Diego Del Morao and switched to Lester Devoe guitar, and now he is getting even better at playing more laid back. Got to go now and watch some more Paco so I could understand it

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2010 5:14:22

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to chapman_g)

and now he has switched back to Conde and hes just as good as ever!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2010 5:16:00

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to buleria74)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buleria74

quote:

Paco has been playing with that kind of sometimes less aggressive groove that I think you are getting at some of the times for many years

first time he played slightly more laid back was cositas buenas, so I can't
agree with you that he did that 1996, absolutely not, you should watch more
stuff from Paco to understand it.

As I wrote earlier, Maestro Paco did mention himself about this after
cositas buenas concerts.

A lot of what is going on is simply the dynamics of the recording and live sound. Paco had just as light a touch when younger, but the recordings are more "in your face" and all guitar back then. I saw him live right after Cositas and he was really ballsy and kick butt and aggressive, and a lot had to do with the live sound, it was very "in your face". Then I saw the DVD of the same show live in germany, and he not only made tons of errors, but the sound was not so much "in your face" as what I saw live. It is the miking techniques and mix, and compression of the master affects this too, I can see why someone would feel it is his overall playing style, but it was not really IMO.

The bulerias on Cositas, coincidentally he recorded with the Devoe, seems to have a light touch because of the nature of the music, and I suspect was recorded differently then say the opening bulerias, which is more ballsy. "Volar" it is called has a lot of melodies, but when the rasgueados come in he is ripping as normal. As a comparison, listen to Castro Marin and compare the same music to Solo Quiero caminar. Why does it sound so different? Same guy, same guitar, same music....but very different recording techniques.

Anyway you can see him working on some of those Volar falsetas at his home in mexico from the DVD Francisco sanchez, and he is just playing pretty normally on his red finish conde in front of his lap top. He is literally laid back playing at home, and that is probably how he recorded that music. But then he cuts his beard and hits the road for a tour and you see how his playing on stage takes on a new intensity.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2010 6:19:53

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Why does it sound so different? Same guy, same guitar, same music....but very different recording techniques.

Thanks for your informative post.

My earlier post was really to suggest that these different sounds and production are the result of artistic choices. Not the result of technique issues or whether a guitar is given for free or not.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2010 7:31:26

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to chapman_g)

quote:

The First time Paco ever played more laid back was with Cositas Buenas, and since then he has listened to Diego Del Morao and switched to Lester Devoe guitar, and now he is getting even better at playing more laid back. Got to go now and watch some more Paco so I could understand it

I don't agree with all that, I just said he is more laid back in cositas buenas,
he himself said the same. but that does not mean he has to change style
when he plays his older falsetas. even the tempo could be the same as b4.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2010 11:15:14

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

A lot of what is going on is simply the dynamics of the recording and live sound

could be , could be.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2010 11:18:43

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to mht2)

Nothing like reanimating a dusty old thread.

Saludos afficionados,

For months now, in anticipation of an instrument, meanwhile knibbling on fingernails so to say, I have been doing quick searches every other time, only to see what people might be saying on the maker in question / his builts. Which is how I stumbled over this thread and logged in.

What Paco´s liking of DeVoes is concerned, in the meantime Johannes mentions on his site that he and Lester went to Spain where Paco selected another of Lester´s. ( A blanca this time. Guess his first DeVoe to be a negra.)

I have been interested in a DeVoe before and had contacted Lester for a little conversation already, thinking of ordering one of his sometime in the far future.
However later, after reading a rave from Johannes my interest got enhanced, and when a while afterwards Tom Blackshear praised a DeVoe flamenca negra he had tried out on the GFA as possibly even Lester´s best, I just couldn´t withstand and bought it.

BTW, Grisha, should it indeed be you who contributes on this forum, and you still onboard: The guitar I´m about is the same specimen that you played on the GFA ( I saw that video ).

As it will still be taking another couple of weeks until the guitar shall arrive at my place, a little post about your personal impression on the indivual characteristics of this instrument meanwhile would certainly be an entertaining read for me.

Also, as a great admirer of your technique, which to my understanding appears to be quite ergonomical and efficient ( I fancy it as the "snapping springs" that I am aiming for - in my daydreams at least ), I am surprised to hear of strains in your right hand.
Ever since interested in physiology and efficient handling I would appreciate to hear some details about the problem you experience/d, if you care to kindly share.

Best,

Ruphus

PS:
Just searched the forum and found the post on your hand problem, Grisha, so never mind my question on that. Definitly glad to read that you completely recovered from the irritation! :O)

( And having just read now in the GSI-videos thread in detail on your appreciation of your DeVoe - despite yet of the to me extremely appealing Perez you tried at GSI - yet boosted my expectations some more. With still, roughly two drooling weeks left for me until own empirics. :O)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 18 2010 13:04:56

buleria74

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 23 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Ruphus)

hi, I wish I had the money to buy a Devoe guitar, hope you

enjoy your guitar.....

cheers.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 25 2010 19:32:32

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to mht2)

Thank you sincerely, Buleria.
As granting not being exactly common strength, I appreciate your goodwill just the more. :O)

I am counting the days, thinking of that guitar every day.
If everything goes well, it shall arrive in roughly a week from now.
Just can´t wait to see how it will be.

Best,

Ruphus

PS:
Lester seems to be one of the most inexpensive luthiers of his level. Yesterday, I read that he just raised his prices for another grand, yet remaining below other´s price.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 26 2010 11:19:24

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: Paco De Lucia using Lester Devoe (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

How do you know? Did you play it yourself? I have some people close to me that did play that guitar and felt it was crap.

Is that Paco's stage guitar, the same one he was playing for several decades?
Many years ago a friend from Serbia told me that one of his friends had a chance to play Paco's guitar at a home party after the concert, in the 80s or 90s, and the guy supposedly said the same thing, that the guitar was crap.