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Andalusian Guitars are made in Mexico according to one source
In recent months, promoters and distributors of the Andalusian guitars have launched an intense advertizing campaign to introduce these instruments on several internet forums. Mr. Ruben Diaz, a self-proclaimed student of the iconic flamenco guitarist Paco De Lucia, and allegedly a guitar instructor at a music conservatory in Canada, lead such marketing efforts. Through numerous videos Mr. Diaz presented the Andalusian Guitars and illustrated their characteristics.
The Andalusian Guitars advertized label provides scarce information regarding “who” makes the guitars and “where”, but contains the word “Espana” which suggests Spain is the products’ country of origin. Members of ForoFlamenco, an active internet forum gathering professional and amateur flamenco guitarists, have reacted to the imposing advertising campaign by seeking answers to such basic questions -where are the Andalusian Guitars made and by whom?
No direct answer was provided to these simple questions, provoking inevitable adverse inferences as to the accuracy of the advertized information. Absent the candid exchange of information about the product, to which musicians are accustomed with luthiers and guitar-shops internationally, the Andalusian Guitars' advertising campaign seems to be a fraudulent marketing scheme aimed to form a perception of prestige through uncorroborated claims to a proper provenance “Spain” made by the hands of such important maker that his name must be kept in the strictest confidence.
Rumors have it that Paco de Lucia has neither endorsed the guitars nor played them, contrary to certain photographs appearing on the internet depicting the legendary “Prince of Anadalusia” holding one such instrument adjacent to a handwritten note (allegedly from Paco himself) which praises the guitars as the best ever made.
Since one of the critical purposes of foroflamenco, a non for profit organization, is to gather and publish consumers’ review of all products related to flamenco (guitars, strings, music scores, recording equipment and the like) in order to educate the interested public, the foro welcomes any information which may settle these unanswered questions and assist consumers accordingly.
RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to gj Michelob)
Hola
I have more or less abandoned this Forum, but I have some revelant information about Andalusian Guitars. The summer before last, a gaditano guitarist now living in Canada, returned on holiday with a guitar which he wanted to show me. He assured me that this very guitar appeared in a video of Paco and he was very proud to own it.
I examined the guitar. The wood was not primera cualidad, but more important were the poor design and construction. Although the strings were excessively separated from the fingerboard, they were excessively close to the tapa, which made the guitar uncomfortable to play. At the bridge there was scarcely any break angle, which meant that any small movement of the wood could render the guitar unplayable.
As for sound, there was a guitar in the local music shop, made by Aparicio de Valencia, for 150 euros, which sounded better, and was better constructed.
These comments refer only to the example I examined and should not be construed as a condemnation of all guitars from this source.
I had related a story a while back in a different thread, my buddy was given a free guitar by Ruben himself, and it looked exactly same as Andalusian, bridge and head etc, I said for sure the guitar was mexican, like ruben himself, and also, the label had a name inside, not "andalusian". It said spain, but a name my friend had not heard nor could find in spain. My vague memory of the name....manuel cana or cano? So I found the "casa" in paracho of don manuel rubio cano and his sons who build guitars. Sons are J. perfecto rubio vasquez, jacinto, guillermo, and Victor Manuel.
In this vid, I could not see any andalusian guitar makes, but you see Guillermo Rubio Vasquez hold up a board with a sketch outline of a bridge with tapered ends ala Ruben's guitars (as given to my friend, a slight difference to the andalusion style) 7:15
I am thinking a simple phone call to one of these makers might clear up WHO builds the andalusian guitars for Ruben.
RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to gj Michelob)
Welp, Ricardo here did say that the guitars are 100% Mexican made in another thread. To be perfectly neutral in all this, email addresses don't prove the country of origin of any product, but we all know that of course. This is in my opinion, another clue in the puzzle.
And Ruben would be getting away with this if it weren't for you meddling kids!
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From: Washington DC
RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to kovachian)
quote:
Welp, Ricardo here did say that the guitars are 100% Mexican made in another thread.
It got deleted, but someone reposted my story on another thread. It is all confusing, I will try to find my original story. Basically my friend, a professional player, was given maybe 2 or more of these guitars by Ruben himself, ended up modifying it etc. But it was thought to be mexican despite the "spain" label, because Ruben and wife dancer were mexican, and my friend had performed WITH ruben IN mexico, etc etc...
RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
guitar instructor at a music conservatory in Canada
Also Toronto Royal Conservatory of Music (RCM) is not a music conservatory as understood in other countries. RCM doesn't offer a degree (BSc, MSc, Phd). Anybody with any background can take any number of courses at RCM.
The only exception is RCM's Glenn Gould School that is a full-time school and the graduates of this school may transfer 70 credits towards a bachelors degree only at Thompson Rivers University's Open Learning which requires 120 credits to graduate.
I enjoyed reading that forum, and discovered some of our members here are quite fluent in Spanish.
I loved this proverb someone quoted there, and really sums it all up... "Quien pregunta es un tonto por dos minutos. Quien no pregunta se queda tonto por toda su vida" - Proverbio de la Vieja China
RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to gj Michelob)
That fact that a guitar is built in Mexico, or any other country for that matter, should not be the issue. The issue is a perception that any given guitar is built in another country (in this case Spain). To most of the world, a guitar built in Spain has a certain allure, be it reality or not.
Some exceptional guitars have and are being built in Mexico, and a bunch that are not so great. Again that should not be the issue. We all know Spain turns out tons of poor to mediocre quality guitars, along with many superior instruments.
Noted US builder Kenny Hill had a line of guitars being built in Paracho, Mexico for years. The difference was, Kenny came out at the beginning and stated where they were built, thus no issue of deception. Kenny shut down his Mexico operation due to quality control issues and moved offshore to China. Again right from the outset Kenny stated these guitars were built in China. No perceptions, confusion, or deception.
Richard Brune also had a line of guitars built to his specs in China. Again no issues. Right up front he said that’s where they were built. Our very own Todd K plays one and is an exceptional guitar.
This whole thing reeks of the BS that went on in the 70’s in the US with an infamous guitar dealer. Said dealer not only stated Spain as the origin of the guitars, but went on the make up names of phony builders. He used a made up “Andalusian” sounding company name. Again the perception of origin was the issue. The guitars where in fact built in Japan. He went so far as to use the phony name of Marcelino Barbero, which was a total hoax. When threatened by the Barbero family he finally pulled the labels.
Lot’s of smoke and mirrors in the guitar business.
RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
Patrick, I hope you understand that we've no issue whatsoever with Mexican-made guitars.
You must not have read my post closely. That's exactly the point I am making. It’s neither the guitar, nor the builder…just the BS about the marketing.
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RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Patrick)
Agreed Patrick, I have a thing for Mexico and plan a documentary in Paracho one day. I have no problem with beautiful things that are made in Mexico.... I married one.
Such a cool tattoo
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RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Patrick)
quote:
You must not have read my post closely. That's exactly the point I am making. It’s neither the guitar, nor the builder…just the BS about the marketing.
No I read your post very closely, I just wasn't sure if you were being scolding in the opening sentence of that post, or if you were just pointing out the known for some other reason, so I made my reply as a "feeler" to find out. Typing on internet forums doesn't convey the intricacies of communication, but we're clear now.
RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
allegedly a guitar instructor at a music conservatory in Canada
To be fair this needs clarification, and I'll elaborate slightly on what Mike has already said.
Ruben does teach under the auspices of the Royal Conservatory of Music in Toronto. It's a schizophrenic institution with two very distinct divisions. There is the section formerly known as the Professional School, now called the Glenn Gould School (poor Gould, who hated concert halls, competitions and music schools, now has one of each named after him), which provides advanced training to players of orchestral instruments and piano.
Then there is the Community School, now called the Conservatory School (the previous names were actually more informative about the nature of the two departments), which is - a community music school, meaning that it offers lessons to amateur musicians of all levels and ages. In recent years it has expanded its offerings to include various kinds of pop and "World" music, and that's where Ruben fits in.
From their website: "It is designed for people of all ages, levels of ability, cultural backgrounds and artistic interests. Renowned for its exceptional academic instruction, we offer a wide variety of musical and creative education including everything from classical, popular, folk, jazz, and world music to classes in writing and film making."
Nowhere in the course listings will you find any reference to courses in "Paco de Lucia's Technique" or "Paco de Lucia's Repertoire", unlike in the countless videos where Ruben uses the name of the institution and the false title of Professor, or in his other advertising: http://tinyurl.com/RD-PdL-RCM
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From: San Francisco Bay Area
RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to gj Michelob)
Thanks, Estevan. That explains much. We're dealing with a community-ed teacher and not a university professor.
No offense intended to anyone who offers community education classes. But there's a difference between that and being a tenured (or aspiring for tenure) university professor. At least, I hope there still is.
RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to GuitarVlog)
quote:
We're dealing with a community-ed teacher and not a university professor.
No offense intended to anyone who offers community education classes.
Agreed - I have great respect for them (also - been there, done that).
quote:
But there's a difference between that and being a tenured (or aspiring for tenure) university professor. At least, I hope there still is.
There is still a difference. When this whole weird business erupted the first time around after Ruben started bombarding the foro a few months ago, I asked him to tell us which university had granted him the title of Professor. In characteristic fashion, his response (as with any simple question, it seems) was to rudely change the subject. That speaks volumes.
Around that time he also claimed to have a Doctorate in "harmony", and proceeded to post a harmonic "analysis" of one of Paco's pieces that would not be acceptable from a first year undergraduate.
RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Estevan)
quote:
the title of Professor
For a great number of years, Stanley Unwin, urivalled master of "gobbledegook", through his lectures on science and philosophy to audiences all over Britain (including the major Universities!) went under the title "Professor Stanley Unwin".
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