RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in Mexico according to one source

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Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

Nothing to do with a "flamenco way" either, just plain honesty?? Or is that too much to expect?

thats exactly my point and only point i am trying to make...if u gonna be honest then be honest all the way through and say it like it is and not just see it from our side of the river..

...flamenco is just as gulty of the same things we acuse others of, plain and simple. honesty

loving flamenco does not have to mean lying to ourselfs when we know its bull*it or conviniantly overlooking true facts...

u say u hate when others market themselfs using wrong labels...well what makes that different to flamencos using labels like Jazzmenco ? when they are not jazz masters...how is that somehow more nobel ? or honest

so if we all lie...whats the point of accusing the others

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 11:49:27

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

if u gonna be honest be honest...flamenco is just as gulty of the same things we acuse others of, plain and simple. honesty

I think this is maybe roughly the same kinda mindset Neville Chamberlain had in the 30's.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 11:57:49

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron i dont know if thats a good thing or bad thing, i am not familliar with his views...but anyone asking anyone to look at themselfs and their own actions before blaming others for the same thing couldnt have been too wrong

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 12:03:10

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

I think this is maybe roughly the same kinda mindset Neville Chamberlain had in the 30's.

cheers,

Ron

So, fakemencos are Nazis! Godwin's Law finally makes its way to the Foro!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 12:06:05

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

It's about conceding to the opposition that they have a valid and understandable point and then allowing them to walk all over you, since they don't hold the same values as you.

Also see Stockholm Syndrome....

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 12:09:54

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Ron.M)

oh so its a bad thing...the people who mind their bussnises and play music however they can (none of them have come after us ) ...who try to express themselfs through music according to their skills or lack of and knolodge or lack of to the best of their abilities are our enemyes who are out to get us ?

they must be destroyed and no mercy must be shown ...now u starting to sound like Bush

...il take the english guy anyday

someone please tell me that loving flamenco hasent given you selective memory and sence of reality.....who plays fakemenco ? other musiceans just like us who do the best they can with what they can...and above all try to express themselfs through music just like us anyway they can or know how and again we are not above any of the "wrong" doings we claim they have done

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 12:13:29

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
well what makes that different to flamencos using labels like Jazzmenco ? when they are not jazz masters...how is that somehow more nobel ? or honest

so if we all lie...whats the point of accusing the others

If they fakelabel it as Jazz than this is bad, as bad as anything. But dont try to generalize that over ALL flamencos, like as if everybody who borrows an idea is a faker. Likewise i dont hate ALL fakemencos, if they stay honest to their art, like some do.
I believe i would say the same things if i was a jazz/whatever musician. Its not about one and only genre, its about ... honesty

quote:

who try to express themselfs through music according to their skills or lack of and knolodge or lack of to the best of their abilities are our enemyes who are out to get us ?

Oh, oh, oh im gonna cry now. But what about those others, you might have heard about them, who just fake it out of business reasons or because they dont give a rats arse about music? They dont exist in your objective awareness?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 12:41:00

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

(none of them have come after us )

Not even the guys spamming Foroflamenco or the guy spamming Grisha's YouTube videos?

Well...you gotta see it from their point of view though, I suppose...

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 12:44:05

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to XXX)

quote:

But what about those others, you might have heard about them, who just fake it out of business reasons? They dont exist in your objective awareness?

acctualy no they dont....belive it or not everyone that is in music is because they love music...weather u think it , approve it or not

quote:

Oh, oh, oh im gonna cry now

well what do you think music is all about if not expression ?

quote:

Not even the guys spamming Foroflamenco or the guy spamming Grisha's site?

u cant use that...thats a dic*head, i called it that straight off...and he plays flamenco more then anything else...or he can play flamenco so if anything thats more for an argument against us then for us

anyway i am going to stop here...i didnt see it before but now i see you guys are right...we and we alone are victims and everyone else is a fake but not us ...not ever, we can afford to point fingers cause we are the most pure form and when they do it its fake when we do it its educated experimenting or " too modern" and thats not hypocritical one bit

our version of what goes on and what went on conveniently changes and we conveniently selectivly forghet certain aspecs to suit what we need to say...that we are PURE

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 12:44:54

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
acctualy no they dont....belive it or not everyone that is in music is because they love music...weather u think it , approve it or not

If they love it so much, why dont they care what it is what they love? Or rather what its not. From the standpoint of a musician who loves music, it should be appreciable to be enlighten about the backgrounds of the music he is doing, or what he thinks he is doing.

Think about it.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:01:49

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to XXX)

quote:

If they love it so much, why dont they care what it is what they love? Or rather what its not.

because not everyone approces music the same way...some use it to tell a story ...some dont even think of a genra...and some purely dont care...i dont know i cant speak for them all but i do know that music is about the story and not about the class you wanna place it in

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:04:20

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

when they do it its fake when we do it its educated experimenting or " too modern" and thats not hypocritical one bit

Uh Oh...

Are you softening us up Flo to announce that you've had it with Flamenco...not a viable way of making a living...and thinking of bringing out an album of simple Rumba stuff..which you know will sell well and also pack out the concert halls there in Adelaide?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:07:01

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Uh Oh...

Are you softening us up Flo to announce that you've had it with Flamenco...not a viable way of making a living...and thinking of bringing out an album of simple Rumba stuff..which you know will sell well and also pack out the concert halls there in Adelaide?

no ...not one bit...i will never do anything else other then flamenco, il go up against anyone for how much i love flamenco ...i just dont like lying to myself for the sake of feeling right or blaming others of thinks i know full well my genra is just as gulty off

...and i dont have selective memory or only a selective view of everything around me

and belive me if i had enough good ideas for a rumba album or feeled like doing it...i wouldnt stop to think about it for a second

...ive always done whatever i thought it was right for me to do and whatever i feeled like doing

i dont care what genra a musicean plays in as long as the story and the feelings behind it is real

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:10:22

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

Yeah, but think of it Flo...

No more playing for dance classes...really good money for gigs and concerts and TV spots...people being really nice to you......being able to afford a nice house, nice clothes and a nice car....having all the girls waiting outside the stage door for a kiss or an autograph.....

It's not ALL bad...even though you have to give up the odd siguiriyas..

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:26:29

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
my genra is just as gulty off

Me not. Any many many other flamencos not. "some purely dont care" - i dont care if they care. If somethings wrong then its wrong, whether someone cares or not.

quote:

Are you softening us up Flo to announce that you've had it with Flamenco...not a viable way of making a living...and thinking of bringing out an album of simple Rumba stuff

Either that or he has a friend doing that kind of music, otherwise i cant explain such a view.

quote:

i dont care what genra a musicean plays in as long as the story and the feelings behind it is real

man you cant hold two things apart. We are talking about the relation an artist has to his art (business vs. honesty), not about what YOU like about music. Guess what, there is non-flamenco stuff that i like, and flamenco that i dislike. Interestingly, none of the stuff that i like is mislabeled. Maybe because those musicians care about music more than about business??? Is there any possibility of this in your view?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:30:41

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Ron.M)

well i got enough girls, the nice clothes and people are really nice to me

il stop at that for the priviledge of doing the odd siguiriyas....i absoluteley love everything i have and consider myself the luckyest guy on earth

however i still stand by all i said

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:30:50

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

Are you softening us up Flo to announce that you've had it with Flamenco...not a viable way of making a living...and thinking of bringing out an album of simple Rumba stuff
...................................................................
Either that or he has a friend doing that kind of music, otherwise i cant explain such a view

.

thats just the thing mate. i dont...i have no friends that play rumbas (and if i did i wouldnt be embarassed..ricardo plays rumbas too) and i dont plan on doing it...i just happen to think we are wrong on this one and if not wrong atleast gulty of the exact same things...and deniz even if you personaly arent i am still talking about the genra u are in ...so that means you by default too...because in your examples when u say flamenco ...it means everyone in it

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:32:55

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

You could always go halfway by playing Caño Roto Rumba....

Now there's a thought.....

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:39:11

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

You could always go halfway by playing Caño Roto Rumba....

oh no u didnt

...i should be so lucky as to do a cano roto rumba justice...thats not half way to anything...thats all the way right in the centre of my dreams amigo

il always respect a guy more who does a rumba because he loves it and really wants to do it then a guy who does a seguirilla or something flamenco just because its the logical or respected flamenco thing to do..or to try and impress anyone here with his flamenconess

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:41:27

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Grisha)

I just thought its time to throw in a funny monkey grabs tit pic.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:51:47

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Ron.M)

this must have been one of the best fusions i have ever heard from someone.

and its labled correctly

its funny that such a kickass guitar player who actually can play very good flamenco like this too

...still menions "fusion" to avoid - con"fusion" TM - , whereas those suckers who can't even play rumba correctly, use "flamenco" on each and every crap they produce.

BTW, CuredasDucles, thanks for the Backstreet boys link.....LMAO

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 13:53:38

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

oh so its a bad thing...the people who mind their bussnises and play music however they can (none of them have come after us ) ...who try to express themselfs through music according to their skills or lack of and knolodge or lack of to the best of their abilities are our enemyes who are out to get us ?

they must be destroyed and no mercy must be shown ...now u starting to sound like Bush ...il take the english guy anyday

someone please tell me that loving flamenco hasent given you selective memory and sence of reality.....who plays fakemenco ? other musiceans just like us who do the best they can with what they can...and above all try to express themselfs through music just like us anyway they can or know how and again we are not above any of the "wrong" doings we claim they have done

I'm sick of you guys arguing about what Flamenco is. Why not settle down and learn from the pros :-)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 15:46:10

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

I just thought its time to throw in a funny monkey grabs tit pic.

Ole Deutschmann!

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 18:54:22

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

I'm sick of you guys arguing about what Flamenco is. Why not settle down and learn from the pros :-)

Thanks Tom!
Nice to see Paco.
(And he doesn't play an "Andalusian Guitar".

)

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Me da igual. La música es música.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 19:01:23

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Estevan)

quote:

I'm sick of you guys arguing about what Flamenco is. Why not settle down and learn from the pros :-)

noone is arguing about what flamenco is...the argument is about the fact that some of us chose to have a tunnel vision and selective memory when it comes to honesty about our own genra but are quick to point fingers and blame others and cry out that they are stealing from flamenco.....we chose to be an ignorant genra who only sees its version of the truth and that wouldnt even be the problem but then we are quick to criticize others for the same thing

theres a million and one examples out there on why we are being hypocritical

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 19:14:29

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Florian)

Carmen Linares......por bulerias ......uh huh, now I understand everything.

Wow man that makes me want to break out some Calixto Sanchez or some Cabrero. Good times.

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https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 19:41:04

Grisha

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005

RE: Andalusian Guitars are made in M... (in reply to Tom Blackshear)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Blackshear

I'll try and see Grisha this June in Austin Texas for the GFA festival. But I'm not sure if I'll have a guitar for him to try out, but hopefully so....... :-)

Ole Tom!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2010 19:48:13

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Tom Blackshear)