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sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

New way to tie strings?? 
Hey Guys,

Just clicking around on some photos and noticed this close-up of the bridge on a Tomatito Guitar. Check out how they've tied the strings. Is this a common method? I've never seen it before.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 7 2010 12:04:00
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
Before the Tomatito model there was the Paco de Lucia model (a collaboration between Vicente Carillo and Paco's brother Ramon de Algeciras) that also had the double drilled holes for each string. I think that's how Vicente Carrillo does it. I own a Vicente Carrillo "Paco" negra, and the strings are easily tied. They also have a slightly greater "break angle."

Cheers,

Bill

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 7 2010 12:47:23
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
Sanchis Carpio models also have this. Its good. I like it. Another new thing I saw some years ago was the 0 thread. Never saw this again.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 7 2010 13:12:45
 
sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
quote:

They also have a slightly greater "break angle."


Does that create more tension? I'd imagine it would.

quote:

Before the Tomatito model there was the Paco de Lucia model


I'm pretty sure it's the same guitar but rebranded with a few tweeks to make it more Tomatito.

Mind you, it's not a cheap guitar £1795. Same price as a Castillo!

quote:

Another new thing I saw some years ago was the 0 thread


What's that? I've seen a 0 fret before.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 7 2010 21:11:15
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
I´ve used a 12 string tie block for quite a few years on all the guitars that I´ve build.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 7 2010 22:52:42
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: sean65

quote:

They also have a slightly greater "break angle."


Does that create more tension? I'd imagine it would.



Yes it does and i dont like it. Probably its just a matter of getting used to it, but if everything is ok with the break angle with normal stringing i think you dont need it, but its of course better to at least have the possibility to tie it the 12way.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 8 2010 1:25:35
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
The 12 hole is neat but requires a ball on the end of the 1st and 2nd string to keep it from slipping. No big deal and the results are a better looking arrangement at the bridge as well as aforementioned greater break angle. I had one guitar with 18 holes to eliminate any string wrap on the bridge. A bit to fussy for me and the trebles were hard to remove.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 8 2010 2:22:52
 
gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to aeolus) 
The 12 tie block has the right break angle but only in hi tension strings . In normal or light tension the strings are slipping
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 8 2010 5:27:13
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
Just a few things.

Because a guitar has 12 holes, doesnt mean you have to use them. If you prefer the sound or feel with 6 holes, use 6 holes. If you buy a Ferrari, you dont have to use all 600 hp all the time

With respect of slipping, it sounds to me that you dont know how to string the guitar with 12 holes. The strings DO NOT need balls or anything else. The 3 nylon trebles, you heat with a lighter, a candle, a match or whatever and it makes a small melted ball.
This way you can use whatever string tension you like including xx light. No problem.

There arent really any backdraws on a 12 hole tieblock

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 8 2010 7:34:50
 
gounaro

Posts: 875
Joined: Sep. 28 2008
From: Athens, Hellas

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
That is correct Anders BTW your blanca that you made me is gorgeous!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 8 2010 8:16:08
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
You don't need a ball on the 3rd string. The extra surface area provides the grip. Likewise on a 6 hole winding the string around itself like on the 1st and 2nd is not necessary for the 3rd string.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 8 2010 8:16:30
 
HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
i agree that you def DON'T need a ball at the end of the string.. mine stays on fine..

and it's def easier to use than a 6 hole block..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 8 2010 23:45:14
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
yup, no balls needed. just wrap the 1st string three times and the 2nd and 3rd twice.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 7:02:37
 
kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
Hey, has anyone successfully drilled more holes into a 6 hole bridge while still on the guitar?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 8:13:17
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
quote:

Hey, has anyone successfully drilled more holes into a 6 hole bridge while still on the guitar?


i didn't do it myself but i had a repairman do it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 8:22:38
 
kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
Interesting, I didn't know that was possible without at least damaging the top. I might have to ship my guitar to have this done, 'cause I sure as hell won't attempt it myself.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 8:52:00
 
Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

The strings DO NOT need balls or anything else. The 3 nylon trebles, you heat with a lighter, a candle, a match or whatever and it makes a small melted ball


I have an Anders. Just don't melt the string while it's threaded through the tie block. You might drop hot candle wax on the polish or burn it with a loose match head. I have seen guitars with these marks. Anders lays some card over the lower bout when doing this to protect the body from the wound strings scratches.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 9:17:46
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
quote:

What's that? I've seen a 0 fret before.


This is a 0 fret. This is just a picture I found in the internet. I saw it at a flamenco guitar about 5 years ago. The use of it is the equal string height also at the 0 fret position. I dont know if it is really necessary for a flamecno guitar.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 10:04:12
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
For the really paranoid about string burns. From David Schramm's web site. Note the balls on the ends of the trebles. Balls, small melted balls...whatever.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 10:44:24
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
^interesting way of tying the trebles. thanks for sharing^

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 11:05:50
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
why not buying ball end strings. This way you have the same break angle like 12 hole (or 18 hole^^^^)
oh btw, ball end strings != melted strings.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 11:07:48
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to XXX) 
quote:

why not buying ball end strings.


ball end strings are for dorks. tying them is much cooler. i even think the melted balls are overkill. do people really have that much trouble tying strings?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 11:09:35
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
quote:

^interesting way of tying the trebles. thanks for sharing^


quote:

why not buying ball end strings.


MAN!!! at leo!!! YOU GAVE IT TO ME! I GOT A LAUGH CRAMP OVER HERE!!!! Guess what I wanted to write right here... --> <--- And than I saw your comment...

This one:
quote:


ball end strings are for dorks.


I wanted to write... Dont do that! Both is for gays.. (sorry gays... But I guess youre used to it.. )
I prefer not to do such cosmetics with my strings.. I also dont roll them up to little advent-rolls.. Thats not masculine..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 11:36:43
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to Doitsujin) 
Hey i dont do that either, just 6 holes and 6 knots.
But i thought the picture looked like overkill i mean 18 holes + 3 "pussy" trebles. So in comparison just buying ball end strings seemed to be less work-intensive for me.

For the record, i also dont cut the strings at the headplate.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 11:41:49
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
There's a guitar maker in the San Francisco Bay Area who first did that 12 string bridge his name is John Gilbert.
And I second that you put a piece of cardboard under bridge or behind the bridge when you use a 12 hole bridge. If the string slips it might snap a big divet on your top.

The classical maker Romanillos has made 18 hole bridges, it's for looks. Also weakens the bridge, In my opinion ( condoms included)



Give safe opinions wear your Flamencomdon TM

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 12:08:26
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to XXX) 
Nope...here is an 18 holer:




The bad thing about the melted balls is...what if one breaks. I had it happen and what was left of the ball stuck in the hole.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 12:28:09
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
Are saying nope it does not weaken the bridge? If you have a bigger bridge like yours probably not, but it could compromise a bridge with a lower tie block.

Tie blocks with 12 holes have been broken, but it depends on the wood and the massiveness of the tie block. Mileage varies.

It is a nice looking bridge. I always liked the ones with tie block rising out of the back of the bridge on that little ledge edge.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 13:39:35
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
I converted a 6 to a 12 once.

never again.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 14:01:39
 
estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to sean65) 
I once drank a12 pack when I should have drunk a 6 pack so I can relate.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 9 2010 15:10:53
 
Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: New way to tie strings?? (in reply to aeolus) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: aeolus

For the really paranoid about string burns. From David Schramm's web site. Note the balls on the ends of the trebles. Balls, small melted balls...whatever.




The most important thing Schramm mentions is the need for a double loop/tie on the trebles, as they're more slippery.

I have seen trebles slip with the double loop, but the ball isn't necessary.
I've never melted the end of my strings.
You just have to ensure you have enough tension on them so they bind - and then maintain that tension until you've finished tightening the string enough at the machine heads until it can hold on its own.



It's a bizarre coincidence that this thread is here, restringing on a 12-hole bridge is precisely the reason I was popping in.

When I received my guitar, I took pics of the bridge, just in case I messed up stringing it and needed a reference.

I didn't but, over time, I don't think my ties look the same as the way they were when I rec'd her. So I recently referred to my pics and found that I was still rather noobish with lighting and the macro functions on my camera. And as she came with clear trebles, it really shows (my noobishness that is), because the clear trebles barely show at all.

Anyway, they were originally tied pretty much exactly the same as Schramm's except without the melted balls. (Which aren't absolutely necessary, but a great idea.)

I searched around a bit, but haven't found any tutorials regarding 12-hole tie blocks. And my Google-Fu is strong, so I'm really surprised that I couldn't find anything. Someone needs to post a tutorial.


I have always observed that there are people who can do things neater, fancier, cooler and just plain better than me and while it's always fun to be resentful; I'm not above copying these people. So the reason I dropped in was that...


I wanted to ask how you folk might tie yours, if you have experience with 12-hole bridges, and maybe if you might post some pics.




Here's some more 12-hole bridge or tie-blocks pics starting with mi amor, la Chela:







And linked pics belonging to other folk:




















P.D.
Interesting... Now that I re-examine my pics, it does appear that the luthier did melt the ends of the strings. They're not quite balls, but they definitely don't look like the strings I use...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2010 8:30:59
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