2's and 3's

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2's and 3's

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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

2's and 3's

I've known this (in my brain) for ages, but I'm only just starting to *feel* that nearly all Flamenco (except for things like Farruca etc) can be counted in 2's or 3's at the same time.
I feel that this is what is giving all the rhythms that rhythmic "ambiguity".
(That, and the fact that Flamencos will never choose to accent an "on" beat when there's a handy "off" beat available! LOL!)
It actually leads into Bulerias turning into Tangos and turning into Fandangos or even Soleares.
Actually Bulerias is tremendously close to Siguiriyas depending on how you feel it and care to pace it.
I know it sounds simple, and all you musician guys will explain it to me in time signatures etc. which I don't understand (or care to understand LOL!)

This is a tremendous music!
All so related and yet so apart.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 21 2004 20:14:31

musicalgrant

Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to Ron.M)

Dear Ron

You are an angel and lo and behold I find you here!!! Thanks again for letting me have the flamenco master again.

I think what you are refering to is a polyrhythm, where there are two rhythms going at once, like a two over a three, which is a Rumba pattern etc.. and yes they merger into each other, like in African drumming they have polyrythms going all the time.

to work out a polyrythm for a 2 over a 3 you times 2x3=6 and then write out the pulses
2 over three rhythm

C C C This is the two pulse
1 2 3 4 5 6
C C This is the Three pulse
1 2 3 4 5 6

One way to play it is using each hand (open or closed depending on the sound you want) and clapping them on your legs, like left hand does the two pulse on the left leg, and the right hand does the 3 pulse on the right leg.

Usually open hand on the pulse and closed hand on the count,

hopoe this helps lol

Grant

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 17:32:23

musicalgrant

Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to Ron.M)

it came out wrong on the post LOL ill email you.
Grant

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 17:33:15

musicalgrant

Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to Ron.M)

2x3 =6

C C C
1 2 3 4 5 6

C C

c= clap

left hand does the one and right hand the other.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 17:43:06

musicalgrant

Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to Ron.M)

LOL its done it again it will have to be by email then!! LOL

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 17:43:39

Escribano

Posts: 6447
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to musicalgrant)

Looks like flamenco found you again, Grant

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 18:43:55

musicalgrant

Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to Ron.M)

Escribano are u a luthier?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 18:59:59

Escribano

Posts: 6447
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to musicalgrant)

I wouldn't go that far but it is one interest of mine that I hope to fulfill very soon, ¿porque?

p.s. the web site URL in your profile is 404, what should it be?

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 19:05:40

Escribano

Posts: 6447
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to Escribano)

Cancel that last question

Your web site URL is http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/musicalgrant/www/index_Flamenco.html

but it's too long for "My Profile". Put it in your signature instead.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 19:13:52

musicalgrant

Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to Ron.M)

Its just that I saw the pictures on your web site and it looks like you are a luthier, and what beautiful pictures of the guitar being made. I have a hand made guitar and I have the uttermost respect for the guitar maker that is all.

Grant

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 19:46:24

Escribano

Posts: 6447
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to musicalgrant)

Ah, I just love the smell

I just hope to finish one, one day. The humidity in the UK is a serious issue, much overlooked by amateurs like me - and the hours involved. It's all on hold for a while but I'll be back soon enough.

There are a few serious luthiers on this forum that pop by now and again. Stick around.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 20:16:54

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to musicalgrant)

Hi Grant,
Welcome to the Forum amigo!
Yeah, the two's over three's thing invades a lot of Flamenco.
It's difficult to get, a bit like patting your head and rubbing your tummy at the same time...only more difficult! LOL!
Thanks again!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 20:23:09

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to Ron.M)

OK guys you have to go to Grant's web site and click on "Press Here To Hear A Track". This guy is a serious player!

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/musicalgrant/www/index_Flamenco.html

Welcome Grant.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 22:20:16

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to Ron.M)

Yeah, sounds pretty good! I play a lot of those falsetas, and I probably got them from the same place you did, Grant! :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 22 2004 22:49:04

musicalgrant

Posts: 188
Joined: Oct. 21 2004

RE: 2's and 3's (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Which piece is it?lol its been a long time since i've updated that website, must get round to it as it was my first attempt, and if not a bit presumptious of me to call myself a flamenco guitarist, but hey what the heck, we can only try and do our best.

Thanks for the compliment Patrik us musos love compliments

lol