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Recording...
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eslastra
Posts: 134
Joined: Jul. 12 2003
From: Livermore, CA USA
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 RE: Recording... (in reply to Merle)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Merle
Hey gang, well, I just finished recording 8 toques onto a CD to see if I have had any improvement!
Well, I came to the following conclusions:
1. My playing is not so good at all!!
2. My playing lacks any passion!
3. My technique is terrible!
4. There is no rhyme or reason to my songs!
5. Trying to record and play at the same time is a pain in the arse!
6. I'm not capturing the sound I want
7. and the list goes on and on !!
Oh well, back to the drawing board...time to start over again. Talk to you later.
Merle
Ay Merlito,
I woke up feeling negative today so I'm going to act on that by doing something positive  You only listed negative criticisms of yourself. How about balancing it out with some positives for each negative. I'll help you get started:
!. You're playing better than you did a year ago.
2. You haven't lost your passion for what you obviously love doing.
3. See #1
4. That's why you have us on the forum. Give yourself a break. You got a late start in this along with living in an area where flamenco is non existent. Overall, I think you've done quite well for yourself under the circumstances. Hang in there amigo, and don't forget my offer from a couple years ago 
Hope that's a start, now try finding some positive answers for the points 5,6,&7.... 
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Eddie Lastra
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Date Aug. 6 2003 22:01:05
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Merle
Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
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RE: Recording... (in reply to eslastra)
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1. My playing is not so good at all!!
It's not! I mean, I really sound bad!
2. My playing lacks any passion!
I think that the reason my music lacks passion, is that I don't play like a flamenco player! There is noone that can tell me different! Sometimes while I am practicing, I find that I try to play this and that, note for note! And. that does not work! (mayybe classical, yes)!
3. My technique is terrible!
Now, this is really making me mad! That damn left hand 'Spider Technique' just set me back 3 years!! ;>)
4. There is no rhyme or reason to my songs!
I don't know about this? Sometimes when I play, it sounds SO GOOD, and other times, ...(forget it, it sucks big time)!
5. Trying to record and play at the same time is a pain in the arse!
That is true! You don;t know how many times I record a palo, just to get ONE that sounds half like chit@@
6. I'm not capturing the sound I want
This is a strange one ! When I play for others, they think I'm a good guitar player, but in the end, it totally sucks, and I know it!!
7. and the list goes on and on !!
I appreciate all your encouragement, Michael, Eddie, Simon, and anyone else, but, MY PLAYING IS BAD, REAL BAD!!
However, I will go on, and YES, from 3 years ago, until now, my music is 800% better! But, to really understand that I really don't, and never will, be able to play flamenco music, is dishearting in itself...and I'm just being realistic! ;>)
Thanks all my friends, for your support, as I will still go on...
Merle
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Date Aug. 7 2003 1:17:11
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Paul Bruhns
Posts: 77
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
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RE: Recording... (in reply to Merle)
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Merle:
I think you play well for a guy on an island! I mean, where do you go to listen and watch and drink in the art? If you have no flamenco in Utah, its no wonder you have difficulty feeling it in your own music. I am a student myself, and I think if I had to do it all over again, I would not start out by trying to learn falsetas, and basic compas. I would first try to feel the music.
I mean, when we were kids, didn't we really feel the music? Whatever music we loved, we listened to it on the radio so much that we could tap out every beat from beginning to end. We knew instinctively where all the emphasised notes were, and where all the pauses came in and for just how many beats. We never had to even think about it!
Lately, after three years of taking lessons, I quit trying to learn how to play a particular piece. I just listen and feel as much flamenco as I can experience. I have quit trying to understand Paco de Lucia, and Tomatito, and whatever other virtuoso guitarist has a CD out. Instead, I listen to cante, and watch dancing, and pay attention to how the guitar accompanies. I try to find music that is really dressed down to where you can see the guitarist is just trying to keep the feeling and rhythm of the palo.
After about six months of listening and feeling it, I could tell my playing actually GOT BETTER. I began to know instinctively where to emphasize, and where not to. And, finally, I'm beginning to play those falsetas and they actually stay in compas! I am beginning to hear the difference, because I now know what to listen FOR!
I know I'm rambling on, but it's not your guitar playing! It's in the approach. My recommendation is::: Hide ALL your flamenco guitar CDs, and find some obscure cante and live FLAMENCO performance CDs. Hopefully, find some that the guitarist is a humble accompanyist.... All those things you love, Peteneras, Siguiryas, Tientos, Farruca will come to life inside you. Then you will play it like you feel it. Six months tops!
I really hope you don't think I'm preaching... I just really believe this might help... it IS THE ONLY THING that helped me.
Best Regards,
Paul
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Date Aug. 7 2003 3:39:48
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Recording... (in reply to Merle)
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Merle,
I know you're getting plenty of advice already, but I think that idea about hiding your virtuoso guitar CDs is an excellent one.
As I prepared to depart from sunny Sevilla, I bought about ten CDs (most of them on sale!), yes I got a few new Pacos and a Nino de Pura, but I bought Don Chacon, Antonio Mairena, and Caracol, also. These guys all sang at least 50 years ago, and while they have "famous" guitar players backing them up, the material is just not as technically advanced as today's music is. However, I think you are a bit closer to the heart of things when you listen to this stuff. This is why I bought it.
Buy some of this stuff and get it into your feelings, and I bet that it will make you feel and sound more "flamenco"! It's a whole new world there. And as old-fogey as some of this stuff is, a lot of players still use a lot of it.
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Date Aug. 7 2003 16:02:26
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Recording... (in reply to Merle)
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Merle,
I have a few that I would recommend. They are big-name guys.
Antonio Mairena, Grands Cantaores du flamenco Vol 9, by Le Chant du Monde
Manolo Caracol, Cantaores de Epoca Vol 3
Con Antonio Chacon, Vol 1, Flamenco de Oro
All compilations of these singers. Other "can't-miss" singers are Juan Valderrama, Pepe Marchena, Bernardo el de Los Lobitos, La Nina de Los Peines.
Be aware, Merle, when you first put on one of these CDs, you're going to think it sucks, but discipline yourself to listen to it faithfully for awhile, and it will reward you greatly. You should also get video of these singers. When you see how flamenco singers put it all on the line when they get on stage, you might start to do the same playing guitar!
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Date Aug. 7 2003 16:41:03
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Recording... (in reply to steenland)
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The opera flamenco was an important part of the development of flamenco, and these two are known as great cantaores.
Of course, there are those that disagree. The famous cantaor Mairena influenced a generation and more of flamencos to believe a bunch of falsehoods about the origin of flamenco. He would claim the only palos worthy of attention were Siguriyas, bulerias, martinets, etc., because they were primitive and gypsies created them, in the cradle of pueblos and enclaves. But this is false. From the very start, flamenco was commercial. It is is a mix of many elements, including gypsy. The opera flamenco phase may sound distasteful to some, but it is certainly worthy, it is certainly as flamenco as anything else. There are many that like to toss around the word "puro" in reference to certain styles of flamenco, but a little thought will show that something that is a mix of gypsy, andalucian folk, arab, sephardic jew can never be called pure.
Respectfully,
MWC
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Date Aug. 7 2003 18:31:48
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Merle
Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
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RE: Recording... (in reply to Phil)
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"Merle, you want some cheese with that whine? Like my teacher says, first you learn the notes. When you can play the notes well then you work on accenting, dynamics, etc. In other words, playing with feeling. Your playing is coming along just fine. Keep posting samples, I like to hear them. "
Phil
ROTFLMAO! Phil, I prefer chicken, ...it tastes like everything, right! (don't drink wine)(gets me HOT)! ;>)
Phil, yes, I think you just taught me something!! I'm trying with my music, and, I can tell that it is better, but is not good at all! So, for the rest of this year, I will work on accents, dynamics (from listening to the CDs suggested), and then the NOTES! ;>)
It seems funny to me that while I practice, I miss notes, and those missed notes, SOUND GOOD! It's like I made up a different falseta...(not me!)///
"PS. Regarding Peteneras: you never answered me when I asked you if you wanted to me to send you (or post on the forum) a sample of the introduction to a Peteneras that my teacher plays on the CD he just cut. There's not too many examples of recently recorded Peteneras around. ... "
Phil, I would LOVE for you to either send me a peteneras, or better yet, post it so all of us can hear it! Paul heard mine, and he changed the whole way I play peteneras..Of course, please post that clip~
It's funny...this forum is to kind to me! Thanks to Senior Simon!!!!
Merle
(I love him)!!
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Date Aug. 9 2003 1:41:08
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Hang in there dude! 
