Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

Update cookies preferences




Hand position upper strings   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

Hand position upper strings 



I was watching that video and saw that he does never move his thumb off the 6th string. At 2:00 he explains. I was told to move the whole hand up, making the thumb loose contact with the 6th string. That makes quick string changes hard imo (there is a Paco scale that brings me always out on the string changes). How do you guys do it?

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2010 6:22:29
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Hand position upper strings (in reply to XXX

For rasguados I also never put the thumb i.e. on the 5th string. But I flip the fingers in serveral different way. For reasguados on the trebles I flip the fingers from the first joint of the thumb. For rasguados on the basses I flip form the inside of the thumb. If that was your question... Im not in the mood to give me Ruben Diaz at the moment.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2010 6:37:15
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Hand position upper strings (in reply to XXX

oh yeah i should have mentioned that i mean when playing picado...

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2010 6:39:37
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Hand position upper strings (in reply to XXX

Well,.. my picado sucks...so I cant give you any hints about that topic. :./
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2010 8:18:05
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Hand position upper strings (in reply to XXX

Deniz –

It sounds like you're referring to thumb position when playing picado descending from treble to bass. If so, there are a couple of different approaches. The generally recommended approach is that used by Paco de Lucia, and many other players, which is pretty much what you say you were told – to move the whole hand upward as you play a descending picado. The purpose of this is to maintain the same relationship of your fingers to the strings. Some players as they move their hand up keep their thumb in light contact with the top. Others just move their hand up and the thumb doesn't quite make contact with the top. I have seen Paco where he's so close to the top that's it really hard to tell if he's making contact. I would recommend keeping some touch with the top, but the main point is move the hand up as your fingers move upward toward the bass strings.

Here is Paco de Lucia – check the run at about 1;20 or so.



Another approach is also one you mention – keeping a light touch with the thumb on the sixth string. Paco Cepero seems to do that in the following clip at about 00:40.



Pepe Romero taught me a completely different idea, which he uses. That is to maintain full contact with the thumb on the sixth string, but bring the thumb down behind the fingers. The great advantage of that approach is that it allows you to move your hand upward while still getting the full support of the thumb resting on the sixth string. I could be wrong, but it looks like Grisha might do the same thing. I use that method for picado, and I think it's probably the best way, but I would suggest trying all three ways and see which works best for you.

Pepe Romero



_____________________________

Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2010 8:48:08
 
Arash

Posts: 4516
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Hand position upper strings (in reply to XXX

deniz, i have seen so many different positions, that i think it really depends on many factors, like the size of your hand, fingers, how you feel most comfortable , etc.

like here, grisha almost doesn't move the thumb at all , when he moves to the upper strings:



here you can see paco (for a short moment), where he moves up the thumb 0.38 - 0.41 (at the same time folds the thumb a bit)



here you can see nino de pura at 1.13 and his unusual thumb position when playing the scales



and we have many others who move the thumb way up the 6th strings, when playing picado and moving up scales to bass strings....

---

edit: i posted before seeing prominents post. yes that paco video is better example than mine

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2010 8:57:32
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15318
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Hand position upper strings (in reply to XXX

quote:

I was watching that video and


um, why????? Man everything he was saying there was like part of some delusional fantasy he has in his head. The whole thing about the guitar was flamenco first, no one played classical guitar till segovia, the thing about faustino conde and paco, paco inventing the negra, the condes dying in late 90's, the things about technique, etc etc etc....all bs, he just made it up!

Only thing he said that made sense in what I understand to be reality, was that classical guitars necessarily have a higher bridge then flamencos.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2010 9:31:01
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Hand position upper strings (in reply to XXX

I didnt write something here. Go on.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2010 10:07:56
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Hand position upper strings (in reply to Arash

quote:


here you can see nino de pura at 1.13 and his unusual thumb position when playing the scales


The clip of Nino de Pura is very interesting more for thumb position for picado in general. What he is doing is really a great idea for picado, but not easy to do. Again it all has to do with the relationship of the fingers to the strings as you change strings while playing picado. The most common approach is to keep the thumb on six all the way until maybe you get up to five or even six. Some players keep P on five while playing the treble strings, and then move P to six for bass, etc. While obviously you can do any of that perfectly well, strictly speaking the relationship of the fingers to each string changes slightly if P remains on the same string while the fingers change strings. What Nino here is doing is keeping the exact relationship of fingers to strings on each and every string, by moving his thumb up or down depending on where the fingers are going. It looks like he's leaving one string in between – so if I and M are playing the first string, then he rests P on the third, and with I and M on the second, P goes to the fourth, and so on up or down the strings. I think that this is really a terrific way to play picado, because no matter what string he is playing his fingers are at the precisely same angle to the strings. The problem is that to execute this properly and well requires very slow, deliberate, careful practice over a good period of time, because when you reach a certain tempo there is barely time to move and then rest the thumb for support before you have to play the picado. But if you can do it, I feel that it's a great approach to picado. The original question comes up also with this of course, because he has to bring P up past the sixth string, which he does.

The picado starts just after 1:00



_____________________________

Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2010 10:58:06
 
XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
 

RE: Hand position upper strings (in reply to XXX

Yeah the nino de pura vid is indeed interesting.
I have attached the scale i referred to. Its the beginning of bar 7 that always confuses me. I have never managed to move the whole hand so fast up and down, to match 3rd and 4th string.

Its just something that has not been solved SINCE YEARS. My picado was more in shape back then, than it is now. I havent practice picado since 3 years or so, thats no joke.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Фламенко
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 18 2010 12:06:50
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.0625 secs.