News rom the workshop, Inlayed soundport

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Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

News rom the workshop, Inlayed soundport

Hi all

I´ve made a new soundport design, or to be honest, I didn´t design it. I just made it. The design is by MrMagenta and I will be using it on the guitar I´m building for him now.
To me it totally changes the whole soundport thing. A lotof people dont like that there´s just a hole in the guitars side, but the response on this design has been overwhelming and very possitive.

So what do you think.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 8:39:29

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

front

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 8:40:44

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

back

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 8:41:55

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Looks great! I also like the "circle" around it, not only the "interior".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 8:53:17

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

She's a real beaut !
I like the design a lot. 'Till now I wasn't particularly keen on soundports from an aesthetic standpoint ...
What wood is the soundboard? Or are those "waves" just reflections on the FP?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 9:01:54

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Thanks for the nice words

This soundport is made with an inside patch, so that its a lot stronger than if you just cut holes, which IMO is a bad idea. The backside of this is that the soundportrosette can only be made while building the guitar, and therefor not be installed later on.
Ed, the wood is sapelly, so the waves are in the wood.
The circle around it is IMO what makes it beautifull. It looks like something which has thought to be like that and not just some holes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 9:43:55

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hi Anders,

I think it's a beautiful guitar....but the soundport, while being better than a bare hole, kinda looks a bit like a "pretzel" to my taste, with the rounded wood inlay.

On the other hand this one IMO looks very "moorish" and elegant and this, if it played well and sounded good, would definitely persuade me to part with my money if I were looking for a guitar with a ready made soundport.

Just feedback you asked for, based on my own taste though.

Not a criticism of the excellent workmanship!

cheers,

Ron

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 9:48:48

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

It looks nice, but also looks very fragile.

Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 10:08:28

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Anders, I think it is very tastefully done. Things like this take time and care. This is why I respect your work so much. You don't just "half ass it" as we say here. You do something well or don't do it at all. Well done.

By the way, your finish work looks fantastic. Is this FP?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 10:19:02

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Very, very classy, it's exactly the kind of sound port that a top-shelf guitar deserves. It reminds me of the rosettes on baroque and renaissance guitars, only nowhere nearly as fragile, relatively speaking.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 10:30:18

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

To me it totally changes the whole soundport thing.

do you mean it changes the sound or simply the appearance of the intsrument cosmetically? Elegant, indeed, as is the one exhibited by Ron.

Incidentally, did you ever receive my PM, Anders? I suppose you did not since I had no reply... but just in case.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 10:35:23

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to gj Michelob)

I think your soundport is a huge improvement on just a hole. I like the circular surround but I'm not so keen on the design I prefer a sharper, moorish design. I like bugeyeds.

On bugeyed's earlier thread I posted a link to an Andres Domingues ornamented soundport which I liked.

I could imagine the rosette and soundport design could reflect one another. I particularly like the geometric arabesque rosettes of some 60's Madrid makers. When I see ouds and the beautiful work on their sound holes that is what I am waiting to see someone be inspired by. Perhaps the oud is one of the precursors to the spanish guitar, maybe good to go back to the source for inspiration.

I have never played or heard a soundport guitar but from others' opinions and from recordings it seems clear that sonically there is a advantage. I think maybe the cosmetic issue holds people back. I think there is a real opportunity here to develop a new idea that could become more accepted. I would encourage you Anders- I think you're doing good work.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 11:52:48

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Anders, that is really attractive and it adds to the visual appeal of the instrument.

Am now wondering how elaborate you can get. There will probably be more soundport art in the future.

EDIT: I didn't see a pretzel pattern but a leaf-triad. I like it!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 12:56:31

bugeyed

Posts: 56
Joined: Aug. 24 2009
From: Conroe, Texas

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Great work Anders! When I finished mine, I knew that my next one would have a border around the design. I like the look. Mine is an add on to an existing guitar, so I was a bit limited on choices. I do have some ideas for retro fitting a soundhole in a guitar that does incorporate a more refined border like yours. It's obvious that you will be doing more of these in the future & I am anxious to see more of your original designs. You work is quite good & it will be interesting to see where this trend takes us.
Cheers,
kev
P.S. Thanks to all who commented on my design.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 16:14:39

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

It's good work Anders. But it seems everything you post is. I suspect that maybe you cherry-pick the projects or photos you show us.

I think you need to design, or have someone design an inlay that can almost be like a logo or trademark.
Something that will be unique so anyone who sees it would know that's an Anders guitar, I mean, if we can't see the rosette.
(In fact, if you don't have a logo yet, it's a good way to think of one... Could even go on business cards or stationary...)

I'm not sure I exactly like the example Ron posted, but something "moorish" might fit the bill. Lots of examples in fancy Spanish architecture, aren't there?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 20:09:00

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

that looks amazing, anders. really nice work!

i noticed the sound hole is a little lower than usual?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 20:32:49

Guest

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Ok first of all, I had to make a new profile, this one, because I changed my e-mail in my profile and later on the foro software refused to confirm my E-mail......

Thanks for your replies. I will try to respond to all your questions.

With respect of the design, its not mine, but I like it a lot, so I will stay with it.
Besides being pretty, it is workable, it doesnt cover the hole to much, meaning that the hole doesnt have to be to big in order to work well and it centers the strength very well in the center of the design. The inlay itself is some 4mm thick which is the double of the sides and is very strong and doesnt make the sides weaker. A lot of the holes which have been posted here on the foro are just holes, leaving open endgrain and as such make the sides a lot weaker. Its not the way to do things.
I will not be making a logo rosette etc. I would like to be free to make changes when I like. I dont believe in modern marketing, profiling etc. And my whole way of being and thus also my way of building will always be against these ideas.

Tom, the finish is FP. I dont do anything else.

Ron, I have no idea what Pretzel is, so no comments on that.

yeah, this port is a bit lower on the sides. Good position IMHO. The rosette doesnt change the funcion of the soundport. It works very well.

gj, no I didnt receive a PM. I went to my profile and found out that my e-mail was wrong. I changed it and was thrown off the system and had to make a new log-in name. (its all your fault

)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2010 0:47:16

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87
i noticed the sound hole is a little lower than usual?

The location is fine if you play in the modern flamenco position.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2010 8:08:27

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

gj, no I didnt receive a PM. I went to my profile and found out that my e-mail was wrong. I changed it and was thrown off the system and had to make a new log-in name. (its all your fault )

Do you have an email address I could use, without resorting to the Foro's tools?

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2010 8:32:36

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

oh yes, I have a mail adress and thanks to Ron being fast and very efective

its now also the mail on the foro and I have my old profile again. So tanks for posting that you had mailed me. I not, I would not have changed it

The whole thing is my own fault. I forgot to change the mail here on the foro when I changed my mail adress some 2 years ago.

Here it is
eliassonguitars@yahoo.es

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2010 9:21:22

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I studied guitar construction a long time ago, and it's my recollection that the whole purpose of the unique shape of the body is to focus the sound waves toward the sound hole. Doesn't the use of a sound port – which is in essence an additional sound hole – dissipate rather than focus the sound waves. Would some of the luthiers here help me to understand this seeming contradiction.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 7:17:57

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Traditionalists say yes, the rest say no. some even say on the contrary

Many tests have been made with advanced equipment and results have been that there´s no loss in volume or projection in front of the guitar. Some tests have even said that volume and projection was better with a soundport.
Soundports is very new in flamenco guitars, but it has been in use on other stringed instruments for a long time, so its fairly well studied.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 15 2010 23:28:50

KMMI77

Posts: 1821
Joined: Jul. 26 2009
From: The land down under

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I love your design Anders!!

Visually it is very appealing to me. I also like the way you have placed importance on strength in your design. I am always knocking my guitars around and I would certainly be put off by something that was or appeared to be brittle.

I hope to have the opportunity to play one of your guitars one day. The one you play in your uploaded videos sounds great.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2010 0:02:43

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

The whole thing is my own fault. I forgot to change the mail here on the foro when I changed my mail adress some 2 years ago.

I had a look and it's the eliassonguitars address. You want me to update your email in your old profile with the new address. Will then delete the new account as cannot have two with the same address. Let me know via the admin@foroflamenco account or a PM from here.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2010 1:41:59

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Ramon Amira)

You might want to read what this maker has to say on the scientific basis for sound ports. He seems to have attracted a following of high profile players.

http://www.connorguitars.com/about/innovation.html

check here for a blanca. I think I would like to try one of these. Senor Gimenez
of Granada thinks they recall the oud or lute. check the site's videos for some of Grisha playing though he seems to be in love with his DeVoe now.

http://www.connorguitars.com/guitar_model/cypress_model.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2010 11:55:16

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Anders I think it looks great!

Regarding the science, my mind says projection will certainly decrease as there is only so much energy imparted into the acoustic output of a guitar, if some of it is bled off the side to the tocaor, then less goes out the front. But since the ear hears logarithmicaly, no listener will really notice the loss. If a customer pays a lot to get it done, then they will think the projection is even louder! But that is just the money talking! At least the tocaor enjoys it, and that is what is important.

I also sent you a PM, you probably didn't get it re the beginner challenge. Anyways, just want to say thanks again for all your help there! If you want to judge jump in.

Cheers!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 16 2010 19:10:45

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Cathulu

In my opinion you´re wrong.
I will repeat myself. Lots of volume tests have been made comparing guitars with soundports open and closed with microphones close to the SOUNDHOLE and further away. The tests that I have read all say the same. NO VOLUME OR PROJECTION IS LOST. Some even say that volume in front of the guitar increases. If you want, I can repeat it one more time?
My own tests say the same. Therefore, I consider a soundport a possitive invention on all stringes acoustic instruments. If I didn´t think so, I wouldnt be building with soundports. Its not something I have just caught out of the air and used because i find it to be smart or because it makes selling easyer. I´m not that way.

You may think whatever you want, but its only speculation and as long as you dont actually prove something it will only be useless speculation and nothing else.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2010 2:06:35

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to KMMI77)

quote:

I love your design Anders!!

Visually it is very appealing to me. I also like the way you have placed importance on strength in your design. I am always knocking my guitars around and I would certainly be put off by something that was or appeared to be brittle.

I hope to have the opportunity to play one of your guitars one day. The one you play in your uploaded videos sounds great.

Thanks Kris. Just remember that the design is not mine, but MrMagentas. I made another design, but his was a lot better.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2010 2:09:42

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

If the sound port is to eliminate the reflection of the sound wave then it would need to be large and unobstructed as on Conner's guitars. Otherwise a small port with a grille doesn't do much but let the player hear his instrument better I would think.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2010 5:25:25

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: News rom the workshop, Inlayed s... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

This guitar is a truly beautiful instrument! I'm not saying that because of the sound port, that's only one detail.

Regarding the sound port.
I might be slightly biased because I sketched out the design, but It's very pleasing to see how it turned out. I think the level of simplicity/complexity feels right and it effectively takes away the naked feel of a hole. On a baroque guitar or oud, you can go wild with the design, but I think holding it back is more suitable for a flamenca. I chose not to go the moorish route with this design. I love those aesthetics as well, but Anders doesn't use a moorish pattern on his sound hole rosette, it's more organic in feel, and the head design feels more nordic to me than moorish, though celtic knots wouldn't feel right either in my opinion.

Anyway. With these things you can't please the tastes of everybody, but I'm happy that so many of you like it :-)

quote:

small port with a grille doesn't do much but let the player hear his instrument better I would think.

In my opinion that's the most valuable thing though. If it comes without a loss of volume / projection, that's great.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2010 9:44:27

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