Pacos Felipe V Conde negra

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Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

Pacos Felipe V Conde negra

It is with great reluctance that I am offering the jewel of my guitar collection for sale. Its a Conde Hermanos Felipe V, Negra 2001 and its very special for a couple of reasons.

Firstly the guitar itself is the best I have ever played....and thats saying something from someone who has sold over 200 guitars. It has a depth of tone and projection that is rare to find. The volume is unbelievable and it is very comfortable on both hands. Its condition is immaculate. There are no cracks, no repairs of any kind and only a couple of light fingernail marks on the top.

The history of the guitar is also of some interest. It was bought by Ramon de Algeciras from Conde near the end of Ramons life. Ramon bought and sold a fair number of instruments from Conde and was able to get his hands on the best instruments which he could sell on to professionals. In fact, Paco de Lucia himself actually used this guitar in concert a couple of times and there is video footage of this.

So here it is, Felipe V, Negra in immaculate condition as played by Paco de Lucia.
I have a couple of professionals looking at buying it now including Gerardo Nuñez but everyone is counting their pennies right now. If you are interested send me PM for larger photos and prices.
Pimientito

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Attachment (1)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2010 5:33:32

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

tapa

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2010 5:35:35

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

body

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2010 5:36:56

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

fingerboard

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2010 5:38:09

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

Isn't that a sight!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2010 5:39:22

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

label

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2010 5:43:52

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

Close up of back (to download) This is a large picture.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2010 10:29:30

alexandropach

Posts: 20
Joined: Jan. 5 2007

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

Looks beautiful to me!

Can you send me some more info on the pricing. Did you buy it from Ramon himself?

You can pm the details and we can talk about this. Thanks. Alexandro

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2010 11:26:08

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to alexandropach)

I am going to send everyone private mails at the weekend because Im at work now but just to answer the commonest enquiries
1. The body is made of Indian rosewood - not Brazilian or Madagascan
2. The model is the A25 and not the limited edition Felipe V
3. The scale length is 664 mm
4. The guitar was originally bought from Ramon de Alcegiras in 2001 but not by me. As someone pointed out this was not at the end of Ramons life. What I meant was that Ramon was dealing with Conde until the end of his life.
5. The guitar does come with hard case.
6. I will try to obtain documentation from as many previous owners as I can

On a side note, I have at least 2 members here who claim to have owned this instrument as well so I am going to check out the chain of sales and see which stories make sense.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2010 5:57:19

hhmusic

Posts: 164
Joined: May 13 2006

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

hi, could you please post the price? lots of enquiries, it seems, and i think everyone want to know that. thanks-

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2010 11:08:22

Gummy

Posts: 495
Joined: Nov. 27 2005
From: North Carolina, USA

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to hhmusic)

Heh heh, yeah, that way we can all bitch about it and make this thread about how no guitar is really worth that sort of price...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2010 13:32:39

aarongreen

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2010 14:20:31

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

I would be interested to see the video?
What i also would ask is: did you use it for playing (i mean outside your house)?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2010 2:29:05

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

I respect you and dont think youre telling nonsense. But let me tell a happening from my life.. about famous guitars.

Well,.. no matter who made or played a guiar.. No try no buy IMO.

I owned a Paco de Lucia guitar that was a present from Ramon de Algecrias to Rafael Cortes. Rafael recorded a CD with it and played it for around a year to honor that piece. Paco de Lucia himself also played that guitar before it got in the hands of Rafael. Than I had enough money for buying a new professional guitar and asked Rafael to test out his guitar. His guitar-turnover is very rapid..so there was a fair chance to get his guitar. In the end I bought it for half the bucks you would spend in a shop to get it.
Well,.. this guitar was good for Rafael and his heavy hands.. but it was a waste of money in my hands. I needed to much force to get sound out of it. It was a silent guitar... I used to play much in bars at that time..and it was useless for that job. Also the live sound of this guitar didnt impress me at all after 2-3 month of playing. With mic it was perfect sound but live..no sir.
The neck was also very bold...like all the Carillo guitars. The guitar was very heavy...it was not easy to keep it in place for a longer time. Also playing for dance 2-3 hours in class made me fastly tired and it was pure torture to play it the 3rd our.
So,... I switched to blanca. Im still not 100% happy... (but who is that?...^^) But I play 4 times more for myself with my actual guitar than with this Paco guitar.
So.. the reason I bought it was mainly because Im very impressed by Rafaels playing and thought ok... Rafael plays only good guitars and it was selected by Ramon de Algacrias, played by Paco... they should know what they are doing... so I bought it.

Big mistake! Never do this again.
Just my experience I want to share with the forum community, because these guitars cost a lot of money.
Test it,.. make your mind free from any "maestro xy played it" or whatever selling arguments... Be focused,.. stay cool, think twice. If it is the right one. Buy it.
OUT!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 10 2010 3:38:16

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

Good story Doit, and you are very right. Because some guitar is good for someone famous, it doesnt mean it´ll be good for you.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 0:20:35

minordjango

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

ill be happy to test run it for a year, at no cost for U.

seriously P , thats a shame you have to let it go, just looking at ur loverly pics from Granada, the guitar is part of the territory .

good luck with the sale

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 4:49:58

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

I respect you and dont think youre telling nonsense. But let me tell a happening from my life.. about famous guitars.

Well,.. no matter who made or played a guiar.. No try no buy IMO.

I owned a Paco de Lucia guitar that was a present from Ramon de Algecrias to Rafael Cortes. Rafael recorded a CD with it and played it for around a year to honor that piece. Paco de Lucia himself also played that guitar before it got in the hands of Rafael. Than I had enough money for buying a new professional guitar and asked Rafael to test out his guitar. His guitar-turnover is very rapid..so there was a fair chance to get his guitar. In the end I bought it for half the bucks you would spend in a shop to get it.
Well,.. this guitar was good for Rafael and his heavy hands.. but it was a waste of money in my hands. I needed to much force to get sound out of it. It was a silent guitar... I used to play much in bars at that time..and it was useless for that job. Also the live sound of this guitar didnt impress me at all after 2-3 month of playing. With mic it was perfect sound but live..no sir.
The neck was also very bold...like all the Carillo guitars. The guitar was very heavy...it was not easy to keep it in place for a longer time. Also playing for dance 2-3 hours in class made me fastly tired and it was pure torture to play it the 3rd our.
So,... I switched to blanca. Im still not 100% happy... (but who is that?...^^) But I play 4 times more for myself with my actual guitar than with this Paco guitar.
So.. the reason I bought it was mainly because Im very impressed by Rafaels playing and thought ok... Rafael plays only good guitars and it was selected by Ramon de Algacrias, played by Paco... they should know what they are doing... so I bought it.

Big mistake! Never do this again.
Just my experience I want to share with the forum community, because these guitars cost a lot of money.
Test it,.. make your mind free from any "maestro xy played it" or whatever selling arguments... Be focused,.. stay cool, think twice. If it is the right one. Buy it.
OUT!

yes, some helpful info here, but these info apply for ALL GUITARS, also for guitars from Anders or any other guitar from any maker, and not only guitars with famous history.

but one question remains here:

honestly, if you would have a guitar with some kind of "famous" history (ramon, paco in concert, etc), you wouldn't mention it at all if you would want to sell it ? ..... i don't think so !

so conclusion is: if pimientito wouldn't have mentioned this at all, there would be no story from you in this thread and so no "negative touch" at all ! lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 6:11:54

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Pimientito)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 7:41:14

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

yes, some helpful info here, but these info apply for ALL GUITARS, also for guitars from Anders or any other guitar from any maker, and not only guitars with famous history.

Of course

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 8:32:11

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

After talking with Mark about this guitar privately, we realized that this instrument used to be mine! So he asked me to tell it's story as I know it up to the point I sold it so we can have some legit history of it.

I had a friend/student who asked me to make a video of his 3 guitars he was selling. His wife was forcing him to unload them for a down payment on a new house. The other two guitars were Gerundino, and Valbuena. I think he was trying to sell them through Zavaletas. Anyway, I saw the vid of myself with this conde and said "damn! I have to have it". So I bought it from him. He was nice enough to let me pay installments and use the guitar for gigs. I made a vid of it right away, the Rondeña a few years ago. Here is the link:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=57246&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#58098

Here is the link to when I was selling it, which has a link of the video again:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=81931&p=3&tmode=1&smode=1

Now my friend orginally bought this guitar from paco de malaga, the local guitar dealer and player here in DC. Paco was a friend of Ramon, and would go every summer to spain, and pick some guitars with Ramon's help. Actually, Ramon would buy the guitars for him so he could get a big discount, bring em back to usa to sell and make a decent profit. They would go together and try dozens, and bring back the top 2 or so. I personally remember when Paco had brought this one and maybe another, but in 2001 I was not interested in a new guitar. Plus I already had a negra.

But as I said, when I spent some time with her, I fell for her. At the time I sold, I need money because I was producing my CD, and had spent my savings on that guitar. I felt it was the only instrument I had that was in perfect shape to make money. It was really sad for me to let it go, it was fantastic guitar. I have another negra that was great too, but it needed some work on a fret at the time, plus had a sentimental value as it was given to me by a student for free lessons.

I sold the guitar finally to Dan Zeff who sold it almost immediately:
https://www.danzeffguitars.com/showitem.cfm?id=193&menu=flamenco&type=guitars

I always wished to track the owner to see if I could buy it back one day when I get money. Amazing that it should fall into marks hands! But saddly I can't afford to buy her back now. I sold my best a26 this summer, new baby and wife not working and all, and doing my best to hold on to what I got now. All I can say is it is IS a fantastic instrument and will make any owner happy. But about the rest of the story, mark will have to pick up from here.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 9:09:22

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

Firstly big apologies for not getting back to everyone so far. This has been for 2 reasons.
1. The bad weather here has played around with my internet connection. That seems to be back to normal.
2. I have been doing some more checking on the history of the guitar and waiting for the elusive PDL video.

Just to answer a few points.
Deniz- Yes i have played it mainly in the studio and used it for part of my new recording.

Doit - I agree that you should never buy a guitar just on its history. I have owned a couple of guitars myself owned by good players that were very fragile or just not that good. A good player can make a mediocre guitar sound great. Rafael Cortes could play an orange box and it would sound good! I would be very wary of buying a guitar from someone who played like that. In fact good players can often unload second rate instruments at a high price so that they can get a better one themselves.

Regardless of whether Paco touched this guitar or not, this one is still an amazing instrument. Up until now you only have my word for it, so for anyone who doesnt know me personally, that statement is not worth very much. Thats why I'm getting as much documentation together as i can.

However I have recently learned a lot more about the history of this guitar and it has in fact passed through the hands of some great players including our very own Ricardo Marlowe. Ricardo has been kind enough to tell me more about the guitar. He can verify that it was originally picked by Ramon de Algeciras and he has owned the guitar himself and found it to be a fine instrument. Here is a video of him playing his rondeña on the same instrument.

Ricardo obtained the guitar through an intermediary of Ramon and does not see how Paco could have played it because it was in a new condition. This has led to my own doubts on the existance of the Paco video.

I obtained the guitar in Spain last year. The owner unfortunately had a head injury that meant he could not play the guitar anymore which is how I came to buy it. It was he who mentioned the Paco video and this made sense due to the Ramon connection. Since then the previous owner has become increasingly more unwell. This has been a bit frustrating for me since his decline in health was very sudden and serious and it may be that the video will not get to me (if it in fact exists).

This does not worry me too much because the guitar is exceptional either way but it does affect the price of the instrument to a collector.
With a video of Paco playing the guitar would be worth 8500 Euros but without this proof I will sell the instrument on the merit of it just being an amazing guitar for 6900 Euros (+Shipping)
Hope this clears up any questions and sorry for the delay. We will see if this video turns up. If not please feel free to pm me with any offers.

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"Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and
CDbaby. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/markshurey

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 9:26:59

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

ricardo, you sold this one ? :(

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 10:49:15

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nealf

Arash - What exactly is your point/beef?
Doit's post is extremely sage advice and I don't see him chastising the OP about retelling the alleged history of this instrument ... or would you prefer a reverential silence since the name of Paco has been invoked??

my point is clear. read again.

you can post such a story on every and each guitar (irrespective of the history of guitar).

and i have read this story from doit about 4 or 5 times now on different occasions.
we all know that he hates vicente carillo guitars, paco de lucia guitars, etc.....becauce he needs other type of guitars (as he explained already). ok, thanks again.

---

oh and consider this: if i sell such an instrument on ebay or somewhere else than a FORUM, there is no function where everyone can post a personal story of his experience with some other guitar (with history) and say : people, pay attention , i had a bad experience, could be same here (indirectly of course!)

bottom line: to tell such a story is OK , because we are in a forum....but then again, you also have to accept my answer to it and my note that there is always such a story on every and each guitar , because everyone prefers something else !

so, now, after my first answer, we have a "FAIR" selling thread !

p.s. i think someone who is paying 7000 bucks for a guitar, will know what he/she is doing and will not be "fooled" by a paco story anyway ! and will research everything, try the guitar out if possible, investigate everything like sherlock holmes before paying 7K anyway ! unless he is a millionaire and don't really care

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 11:01:52

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Arash)

quote:

i think someone who is paying 7000 bucks for a guitar, will know what he/she is doing and will not be "fooled" by a paco story anyway !

Thanks Arash. This is a professional instrument for a professional player. It deserves to be in the hands of a player wanting to make a concert/recording career with one of the best instruments out there. I know a lot of people will be looking out of interest but I'm not expecting to sell this instrument to a beginner or intermediate player.
Secondly, I stand by my word on guitar sales. Anyone who has bought from me will know I buy and sell from professionals and if anyone is even slightly unhappy with an instrument I have sold them, they can have a 100 per cent refund on return delivery. I am not worried in the case of this instrument as it will surpass the expectations of most players. I fell in love with it from the first chord and so did Ricardo. That has to mean something.

As to the rest of the comments, everyone has had good and bad experience buying guitars, myself included. This instrument costs less than a new A25, its been picked by Ramon de Algeciras and 2 respected players here are saying its a sublime fantastic instrument. That makes it much less chance of being a rip off than taking your own chances as far as I can see.

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Follow my blog http://pimientito.wordpress.com/

"Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 11:41:04

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Arash)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

ricardo, you sold this one ? :(

Ouch why did you have to do that man?

Luckily I know the guy who bought it very well and he says anytime I want to come play her...and also he is willing to sell it back to me if I can get the money in the future. Basically I got really lucky and he helped me out big time.

Ricardo

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2010 21:58:51

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

also he is willing to sell it back to me if I can get the money in the future.

.... one quick fix, win the composition challenge

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2010 5:49:07

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Pimientito)

So.. Pacos negra.. which one of these?

Ok,.. jokes aside. Lets get serious. I think one can trust Pimientito. No doubt. But you know,.. comercial arguments are always making wary. Especially arguments including famous people... Im curious which guitar I´ll buy next. Its always a very big step and affects your playing and motivation for a long time. If youre choose would be bad,.. than it could lead to the end of your motivation and you quit playing.. The Paco guitar I owned,,... draged me closely to that point..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2010 5:57:22

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq7J3Xrdu8k

Maybe it's just me...but I kinda get the impression that Paco is a bit shy around attractive women!

He seems a bit flustered there and not so assertive and confident as he usually is.

(Sorry to change the subject

)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2010 7:26:57

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

So.. Pacos negra.. which one of these?

its the one in the case of course! In fact that looks like my old case. That must have been my guitar he used, and it was his favorite!

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2010 7:47:08

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Pacos Felipe V Conde negra (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq7J3Xrdu8k

Maybe it's just me...but I kinda get the impression that Paco is a bit shy amongst attractive women!
He seems a bit flustered there and not so assertive and confident as he usually is.

(Sorry to change the subject )

cheers,

Ron

thats not true.

my uncle (in USA) had a very cute and beautiful persian girlfriend. and they were both together on a concert of paco in the past (some years ago), and after (or before, i don't remember) the concert, they wanted to say hello to paco and they could get to him finally. my uncle said holaaa paco, etc..... and paco totally ignored him ! not even looked at him, but his full attention was directed at his girlfried,,, paco smiled and said hola, etc. and gave an autograph to her and looked at her all the time...

not that my uncle was mad or something. he laughed the whole time when he was telling me this little story

but don't say paco is shy or something.... he is a casanova...

maybe on TV , but not in real life

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2010 7:48:32