Break angle

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Break angle

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Posts: 72
Joined: May 21 2009

Break angle

Hola, luthiers,

Got this battered guitar whose first (high E) string had no break angle, I mean it was just a straight line from nut to tieblock. Couldn't find any drill bits long enough to convert to a standard 12-hole and didn't feel like removing the bridge, so I looked around for alternatives.

Considered just tying a hard bead to the end of the string (like acoustic guitar steel strings) so asked a girlfriend for six mini-pearls from her necklace, but she refused (bummer-- I gave her the necklace). Next, toyed around with adding a tieblock extension with the proper holes below the tieblock, but it seemed a lot of trouble for just one string-- plus I didn't have any rosewood or ebony lying around.

So I just drilled into the existing tie block. Attached, three pix of the result. In them you'll see a bass string, not a clear "E" string. I chose this so it'd show up better in the photos.

I only did the first string, sort of as a proof-of-concept exercise. If I were to do it for all six strings, I'd probably route the tie block below the new holes and inlay a bone strip for support.

Couldn't find anything like this in the archives. All comments appreciated.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2009 17:42:13

Posts: 72
Joined: May 21 2009

Break angle photo 1 (in reply to X)

Sorry, problems uploading the photos. Here's the first one.

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Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2009 17:44:15

Posts: 72
Joined: May 21 2009

RE: Break angle photo 2 (in reply to X)

Here's the second photo.

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Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2009 17:46:01

Posts: 72
Joined: May 21 2009

RE: Break angle photo 3 (in reply to X)

Photo 3

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2009 17:49:56

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: Break angle (in reply to X)

Good job.

I saw once someone use a regular six hole bridge and managed to tie his strings like a 12 hole by threading each string through the hole of the string next to it. I tried to find a picture but couldn't.

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Guy

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2009 22:34:16

Posts: 72
Joined: May 21 2009

RE: Break angle (in reply to X)

Huh. Now why didn't I think of that? I'm going to try it. Thanks, Guy.

X.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 1 2009 12:47:00

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Break angle (in reply to X)

I thought: This is so downright simple it can't work. So I tried it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 7:03:01

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Break angle (in reply to bursche)

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 7:04:51

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Break angle (in reply to bursche)

3 - It's actually a noticeable improvement of the sound.
There is no big change of volume as far as I can judge, but the sound is more
"elastic" or "bouncy"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 7:06:41

el topo

Posts: 22
Joined: Oct. 24 2009
From: Mendocino, Ca.

RE: Break angle (in reply to X)

You can solder a drill bit into a small diameter length of brass tubing and drill new holes in an attached bridge, turning the bit by hand. Tedious but safe!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 9:27:56

gshaviv

Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel

RE: Break angle (in reply to bursche)

quote:

I thought: This is so downright simple it can't work. So I tried it.

How did you handle the 1st E string, no more holes... did you thread the B through the E and E through the B (which would have the B hole with 3 strings)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 10:21:20

domzo

Posts: 64
Joined: Jan. 10 2007

RE: Break angle (in reply to bursche)

quote:

I thought: This is so downright simple it can't work.

5 out of 6 strings recommend it

Not sure what you do when you get to the top E and have nowhere to go...

Maybe you could swap them in pairs -e.g. crossover 6 & 5, 4 &3 then 2 & 1..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 10:27:26

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Break angle (in reply to X)

only can do it with D and e string. I need bigger holes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 10:36:43

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Break angle (in reply to X)

I think that's a brilliant idea, X!

So, instead of making a 12 hole tie-block, you just make a 7 hole one!

(with one offset)

Genius!!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 10:39:15

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Break angle (in reply to gshaviv)

quote:

which would have the B hole with 3 strings

Would never have fit, but three strings fit easily into the high E hole, as you don't have the G-string inside which ist too big in diameter.

Best idea ever had, whoever exactly it was!
Works like that:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 11:19:49

bugeyed

Posts: 56
Joined: Aug. 24 2009
From: Conroe, Texas

RE: Break angle (in reply to bursche)

How is that 1st string holding for you? Looks like it could slip. Otherwise, this looks like a brilliant idea if the holes are large enough!!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 15:21:08

krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Break angle (in reply to bugeyed)

quote:

if the holes are large enough

I've just been experimenting. I normally use a 12 hole bridge to get break angle because I think its important especially for players who play hard with a heavy hand. And it makes a big difference if you fit an under-saddle pickup because it provides more down force I think.

The standard string hole is 1.5mm so first I went up to 2.0mm and found this just too tight to thread the E and G twice through the hole.
On Normal D'Addarios the diameter of these two strings is about 1mm and higher tension strings are thicker still.

So I tried 2.5mm holes and it works fine, so you can just the same break angle as the 12 hole bridge but with only 6 holes.

The larger holes look a little strange but I could get used to it.

I'd love to know what the seasoned professionals on the forum make of this?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 0:46:17

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Break angle (in reply to bugeyed)

quote:

Looks like it could slip.

It is maybe the greatest improvement that the strings hold their pitch MUCH, MUCH better now.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 5:06:32

domzo

Posts: 64
Joined: Jan. 10 2007

RE: Break angle (in reply to bursche)

quote:

Would never have fit, but three strings fit easily into the high E hole, as you don't have the G-string inside which ist too big in diameter.

As you obviously have large holes could you do all 6 strings like you've done the top E - just looping each string over itself through the same hole?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 7:41:54