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aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

the mystery of buzzing g-string? 
Hello,
I have a question for the luthiers. My guitars g-string is buzzing and I have tried to fix it by lifting the saddle bone but it doesnt help if I dont lift it to extremely high. The other strings are fine. I can have easily 3mm from the 12th fret with a minimum amound of buzzing but the g-string is different.
I dont see any physical damage on the guitar and the neck is straight.
Im wondering what is causing this buzz and can it be fixed?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 25 2009 9:27:55
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
You havn't said if its buzzing on all the frets or just the open string?

If its a high pitched buzz it could be the nut thats too low.

But try this link and see if you can work it out

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Setup/BuzzDiagnosis/buzzintro.html

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Kevin Richards

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 25 2009 10:06:14
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
Its buzzing on all the frets, more on the first to fifth and then its not so much. The link you send is very helpful. Im reading it and trying to find the reason.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 25 2009 11:19:15
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: aleksi

Its buzzing on all the frets, more on the first to fifth and then its not so much. The link you send is very helpful. Im reading it and trying to find the reason.

Sounds like a defective string. Try putting on a new one.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 26 2009 5:35:45

stephen hill

 

Posts: 300
Joined: Feb. 16 2004
From: La Herradura, Granada, Spain

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
I agree, defective string is the 1st point.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 26 2009 14:29:15
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
thanks for your answers jshelton and stephen hill.
I've tried to change the string couple of times but its always the same. I had daddario extra hard nylon G, but it didnt have enough tension. I made a test and tuned it higher and find out that it takes away the buzzing.
It looks like the relief of the neck it extremely low, almost nothing. I compared it to my other guitars and they have littlebit more. If this is the reason, still I cannot understand why all the other strings are playing fine but the G is not.
I always thought that a straight neck is good, but is it true that there should be a slight curve on it? Maybe it would solve problem?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 27 2009 6:51:12
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
quote:

still I cannot understand why all the other strings are playing fine but the G is not.


I still think it might be the nut which is the problem.
Is the action at the first fret very low?
If so, you could shim the nut.
A piece of printer paper might be sufficient (about 0.1mm) or piece of thin card (typically about 0.2mm)

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Kevin Richards

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 27 2009 11:12:57
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
it could be a saddle buzz? if it buzzes all the way up then it perhaps the buzz is not coming from the frets. also another thing to look at is if the tuners rattle. i had an old factory guitar where the buttons rattled, sounding like a buzz, that also happened when i played the g string.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 27 2009 11:43:39
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
The nut is very low but it buzzez even if I use capo. I have raised the saddle bone from G-string and now the buzz is mostly when I play 1,2 and 3 frets. If I lower the saddle, it buzzez from higher also.
I could try shimming the nut but its glued, or very tightly stuck. How can I take it away if its glued?
Its a peghead so propably its not from there.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 28 2009 6:16:41
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
quote:

The nut is very low but it buzzez even if I use capo


using a capo is no different to a barred chord, so try shimming the nut. It will usually move if given a sharp blow.
But if you are not confident you will have to find a luthier

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Kevin Richards

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 28 2009 11:13:18
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
if it buzzes at 1 2 and 3 when you raise the saddle that means the nut is too low. much like on a guitar with a trussrod, frets 1-3 ish are determined by the nut height, 3-9 or so by the truss rod and the rest by the bridge.

shim the nut.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 28 2009 18:59:43
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
I was going to shim the nut today, but I couldnt get it out. I think its glued. I was pushing and hitting it as much as I had courage but It chose not to come out. I only ended up with a minor scratch on the neck, ouch.
I think I have to visit a luthier for getting the nut out and to see if the shimming will help.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 29 2009 6:09:42
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to krichards) 
quote:

using a capo is no different to a barred chord, so try shimming the nut. It will usually move if given a sharp blow.
But if you are not confident you will have to find a luthier

If the guitar continues to buzz with a capo on the buzz is not caused by the nut. The capo effectively takes the nut out of play. At this point if it's not a defective string it has to be either low or worn saddle, uneven frets, a neck that is not straight or sympathetic buzzing from tuners, loose brace, etc. as Stephen suggested.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 29 2009 11:09:30
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
The G buzzez with a capo on 1,2 and 3 frets, after that it gets lesser. Im sure Its not
1. defective string and its
2. not the saddle because I made a special bone that lifts the G string to 3,5mm on the 12th. like I said before all the other strings can go easily to 3mm or even under.
3. The neck is straight so propably ist not from there
4. Its not from tuners because its a peghead

I didnt think about a loose brace or something inside the guitar so I have to check it out, also the frets.
I'll try the shimming still and tell did it effect. To my logic it doesnt but I hope it would.

The mystery for me is why the G string. Its in the middle of the fretboard, its the thickest nylon string. There must be something why that string. My eyes are not familiar looking flaws on a guitar so I might not see something obvious.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 29 2009 12:13:42
 
Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
Hmmmph!

I was hoping that this was off-topic thread about exotic dancers or Brazilian sun-bathers.

Now that I've expressed my disappointment, I'll leave this thread because I have nothing useful to contribute.


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 29 2009 12:18:36
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: aleksi

The mystery for me is why the G string. Its in the middle of the fretboard, its the thickest nylon string. There must be something why that string. My eyes are not familiar looking flaws on a guitar so I might not see something obvious.

Aleksi, you mentioned that you changed the 3rd string. Did you try a different brand of string? I once worked on a guitar that had a terrible buzz on the first string. The owner had tried changing the string to no avail but when we tried a different brand string the buzz vanished. It was a big relief to me since it was one of our guitars and I couldn't find any flaw in the setup.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 29 2009 13:00:58
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

The capo effectively takes the nut out of play


I'm reluctant to question this because I know you have vast experience and I respect that.
But capo or no capo the whole guitar vibrates and that includes that short length of string between the nut and capo. High pitched buzzing can ocur there.
I've had experience of this recently and the nut was the problem.

Aleksi hasn't said if this buzz has a high pitch. We need to know this Aleksi.

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Kevin Richards

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 29 2009 23:57:46
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
I dont really know if its high or low pitched. What is the reference point? Maybe I would call it normal, or low pitch but I really dont know.
I took it today to a luthier (bunch) and we were looking together at the guitar and even they were wondering where is it from. Eventually they found out the second and some other fret is uneven from the center of the neck, but they were not sure is that really causing the buzz. They littlebit reluctantly took my guitar and will try to fix it but were not promising any results, but I hope for the best.
Atleast they will littlebit rise the nut, make a new saddlebone so the G lies bettter and even the frets. Also they promised to search if they would find something inside of the guitar.
I feel abit sorry for my self now 'cause I couldnt try myself shimming the nut, its one experience I didnt get and so I cannot tell did that cure the buzzing or not.
jshelton5040: I have tried many brands. luthier, savarez, daddario, hermanos conde. Unfortynately its always the same.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2009 5:03:05
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to krichards) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: krichards

quote:

The capo effectively takes the nut out of play


I'm reluctant to question this because I know you have vast experience and I respect that.
But capo or no capo the whole guitar vibrates and that includes that short length of string between the nut and capo. High pitched buzzing can ocur there.
I've had experience of this recently and the nut was the problem.

Aleksi hasn't said if this buzz has a high pitch. We need to know this Aleksi.

No need to be reluctant. You certainly won't hurt my feelings if you disagree. What you are referring to is commonly called "back buzz". It would require a remarkably shaped high fret for back buzz to occur on only one string no matter where it is fretted on the neck. I think Aleksi has made the right decision by taking it to a luthier. This is one of those things that can drive repairmen crazy.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 30 2009 6:15:53
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
so I got my guitar back from the luthier and the outcome was not as good as I hoped for. They were able to make it better, but not remove the buzz complitely. Its still buzzing from the first fret. They said thats all they can do that the top is causing the buzz because it resonates in some frequency.
Well, its better than before but im not fully satisfied. There remains a question in my head that what would I have to do to it to remove it complitely.
...like is it possible to remove the first fret and put abit higher one to it, or possibly to curve the neck a bit?
But I dont know...anyway its better now and the luthier didnt think of that so maybe all is done that possible. One thing came to my mind that maybe these types of works are very difficult and time taking so they didnt want to do it. How is it, do you luthiers have some works you dont do, or would a customer like me have to know to demand the work?
well, but thats it...and the mystery still remains
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 11 2009 10:46:43
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
Do you understand why this problem first started?
Was it sudden or gradual?
Did the guitar suffer a bang or was it dropped?
Have you had big changes in humidity this summer? Very dry or very wet?

Something must have happenned to make it start buzzing when it didn't before.

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Kevin Richards

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 11 2009 11:32:25
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
krichards: I have no idea what has happened to it. I bought it used and when I got it it was like that. I played it long time and didnt mind it, but now im interrested of fixing it. It came by airplane from states so maybe something happaned there. Its a long way so I gues humidity might be different or it has been banged in the garco. It was well packed in hard case,styrox and cardboard box, no problem in there.
I asked the previous owner and he didnt notice the buzz. So most likely the way here made the buzz.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 11 2009 11:45:50
 
duendesoul

Posts: 32
Joined: Nov. 10 2007
 

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
Sounds like a problem I had with a Johnny Walker custom flamenco guitar. He had to raise the action so high to rid the buzz which deemed the guitar "unflamenco" from a playing action stand point. I ended up returning the guitar and lost $200 in shipping in the process.

The G buzz was on open string.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 23 2009 7:51:53
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to duendesoul) 
Just another thought on this:

I recently had a customer report a buzz, we discussed all the possibilities and he sorted it himself.
It turned out to be 'a resonance' of a machine button. Althought the button did not appear loose in any way, when he ran a small drop of superglue between the button and the shaft the problem went away.

You could try touching the machine buttons in turn, when the playing the buzz note and see if you can feel a significant vibration in any of them?

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Kevin Richards

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 24 2009 1:45:27
 
newmenco

 

Posts: 8
Joined: Nov. 3 2009
 

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
I'm new to flamenco, and nylon strings, etc., but I have a thought.

What is the diameter of your G string? I saw that you changed it. But, that is three options:
1) put on new string, same brand (diameter is the same)
2) put on new string, different brand (diameter might be the same)
3) put on new string, different diameter

When a string is plucked, it moves in an elliptical type circle.

You said when you capo up, the buzzing diminishes.

When you capo up, you are making the string shorter. A shorter string will have "tighter" or "smaller" ellipses.

I'm thinking maybe that is why the buzzing gets less when you use the capo. So, maybe changing to a smaller diameter will help.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 15 2009 9:38:04
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14799
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
All along it sounds like the frets. Need to be replaced or hammered down better, or even glued down. A guitar, especially flamenco guitar should be allowed some buzzing. I can't stand a guitar that has no buzz at all.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 18 2009 20:01:28
 
aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to aleksi) 
the fret job made it better. couple of frets had rise from the middle (g string place) and now they are even. I dont mind it anymore. the g string is just a bit buzzier than other. I tried if I could make it go away completely also from curiosity, but Im used to it now and find it good.


quote:

A guitar, especially flamenco guitar should be allowed some buzzing. I can't stand a guitar that has no buzz at all.


Ricardo, you would like my guitar then

and thanks again for everybody who tried to help
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 19 2009 3:36:49
 
walk53walk

 

Posts: 1
Joined: Dec. 14 2010
 

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to duendesoul) 
I have a written policy of returning the full purchase price of any guitar I build that is not satisfactory to the buyer and returned within a reasonable time. The guitar must be returned in new condition for a full refund. The guitar in question was returned to me with considerable top damage, so I took the hit for a new top and returned the full purchase price to the buyer, less shipping. I think this was more than fair to the buyer.

Johnny Walker, guitar luthier
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2010 1:12:44
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to walk53walk) 
Very commendable, Johnny.

I know this is a different situation, but I fix electronic things for a living and every now and then you will get a customer who will return the equipment a few months later with a completely different fault but resulting in no operation or something and looks to him/her like exactly the same fault.

From experience, I've found it better on these odd occasions to take the hit and just fix it free of charge.

It's worth it, 'cos then folk always speak well of your services instead of having someone believing they have been done over and telling others that you are useless or something.

There are a few large stores who will take item returns without question or hassle and I must admit I always use them as my first choice just because of this.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2010 8:24:35
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: the mystery of buzzing g-string? (in reply to walk53walk) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: walk53walk

The guitar in question was returned to me with considerable top damage, so I took the hit for a new top and returned the full purchase price to the buyer, less shipping. I think this was more than fair to the buyer.

Johnny Walker, guitar luthier


Impressive, to say the least!

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 14 2010 9:34:53
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