soundportparty in my patio

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Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

soundportparty in my patio

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 1:16:39

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

x

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 1:19:01

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

That's interesting Anders.
Especially the modification to your own guitar.

I thought guitars had to be built from scratch with the soundport in mind and that would affect other design issues such as harmonic bar position etc etc.

So are you saying that ANY guitar would benefit from a soundport?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 1:36:12

stephen hill

Posts: 300
Joined: Feb. 16 2004
From: La Herradura, Granada, Spain

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

very interesting Anders, I made a 3 neck harp guitar with a sound port on the bass section front, (rather than on the side, worked well.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 1:38:29

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Wow, your cedar tops look so good!

I'm definitely interested in the 2A but my savings are only halfway, and the swedish crown is really weak at the moment (probably won't recover though). Any chance for some close ups on the 2A?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 1:56:10

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to mrMagenta)

Soundports rock. I'm with you Anders.

Those are some nice looking guitars indeed.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 2:01:34

stephen hill

Posts: 300
Joined: Feb. 16 2004
From: La Herradura, Granada, Spain

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

did you find it had any effect on the pitch of the guitars?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 2:15:53

Matic

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Very cute!

Sorry if this sounds arogant since there's been quite some talk about soundports here, but who actually invented them/used them first?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 2:16:06

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

x

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 3:03:52

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I was just thinking....

It would be possible to make a Wireless Mic in a sort of "cork" shape that could plug into the soundport for doing gigs!
No idea how it would sound though.
Would need a bit of experimentation first....

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 6:04:53

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

x

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 7:47:29

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Anders,

Is it better for the listener or just to the player? Aesthetically, I don't care for the hole - but hey ho.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 7:50:13

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I met Robert (Ruck) a few years ago and he shared a little history about him and ports. He said the very first guitar he built was a flamenco. He had cut the channel for the top bindings and couldn't wait to string it up. With the binding channel cut, air was able to pass through the spaces between the blocks used at the junction of the sides and top. He said it sounded great, but after he finished the guitar it didn't sound anywhere near as good.

He figured a guitar wouldn't look too good without bindings so he started to experiment with ports. I never did ask him if he had picked up the idea from someone else. I don't know if he was the first, but he has been using them for a long time.

He was at my house one day and he brought over his own personal flamencos, a blanca and a negra. Neither of them had ports. He said ports had been a tough sell to flamenco players. He built two guitar for Nunez, one with and one without.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 12:46:24

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Im also thinking about let me carve a soundhole..but its a pretty hard decision.. As Anders saind.. They break easier later on.. And let them dig a hole in my only and very expensive guitar that makes it weaker... is ... I would say.. a pretty hard decision... I think I wont do it. I have to think further about that... The best would be to get a guitar with soundhole to test in my hands...
I saw a youtube video where jason demonstrated the soundhole opened and closed. But I heard no difference. But I know theres a big difference when having my head above such a hole..thats without doubt. I think my headphones are not good enough...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 13:02:58

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Doitsujin)

I had a really cheap classical with a pickup and preamp in the side about 20 years ago. The preamp started rattling so I took it out...... I was shocked at how good it sounded afterwards that I didn't bother putting it back in............ therefore I invented soundports.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 17:28:21

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Anders,

I have to admit, I am not a fan of soundports. However, I think yours are very well done. Simple. I think some builders get carried away with them making all these fancy designs which takes away from tradition IMO. I like yours though. I've only played one guitar that had a soundport. A classical and I did like the extra sound it gave me.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 18:32:10

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Question Anders. If the idea of the soundport is to give more volume and sound to the player, wouldn't the location of the soundport be better if it were located directly on the curve of the bout making it closer to the player? or does it not matter?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 14 2009 18:35:15

Anders Eliasson

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RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

x

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 0:46:59

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Hi Anders,

Can,t you make them a slightly bigger so a beer fits in?

Sorry, couldn't restst.....

Peter

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 1:38:12

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Also you can look into the guitar, see the bracing system and the quality of the builders work.

Also, you could fit a little caged back in the inside for keeping odds and ends in, like loose change or vaseline or a pet mouse.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 1:39:52

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

those are some really good looking guitars, anders.

im seriously considering a diy job on a soundport for one of my guitars now.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 5:01:57

Kubase

Posts: 72
Joined: May 20 2009

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I'm no luthier, but I would strongly advise anyone thinking of taking a drill to their guitars to not do so. Leave it to the pros, or better still buy a guitar that was born to have a soundport.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 5:31:42

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

i was thinking of using something like this

maybe i'll test it on a friend's guitar first...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 5:52:32

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

The reason I dont put the port closer to the player is that I want to hear the front of the guitar as well. If its right under your ears, it dominates and you loose the "stereo" effect it gives.

Makes sense. I knew there had to be a reason. Well done my friend. Very nice guitars. I really like that cedar top.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 6:22:05

Anders Eliasson

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RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

x

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 7:40:51

domzo

Posts: 64
Joined: Jan. 10 2007

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Kubase)

quote:

I'm no luthier, but I would strongly advise anyone thinking of taking a drill to their guitars to not do so. Leave it to the pros, or better still buy a guitar that was born to have a soundport.

Spoilsport!

I suggest we have a DIY soundport challenge

I wonder if the soundport helps a greater volume of air flow through the guitar - possibly improving projection (if it does improve projection...). A bit like when you cut two holes in a milk carton, the milk flows out better as the air can get in at the same time to fill up the space. (A milkport perhaps?)

Anyway.. looks like a great party!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 10:23:26

Tom Blackshear

Posts: 2304
Joined: Apr. 15 2008

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to domzo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domzo

quote:

I'm no luthier, but I would strongly advise anyone thinking of taking a drill to their guitars to not do so. Leave it to the pros, or better still buy a guitar that was born to have a soundport.

Spoilsport! I suggest we have a DIY soundport challenge

I wonder if the soundport helps a greater volume of air flow through the guitar - possibly improving projection (if it does improve projection...). A bit like when you cut two holes in a milk carton, the milk flows out better as the air can get in at the same time to fill up the space. (A milkport perhaps?)

Anyway.. looks like a great party!

It releases the sound faster and in some respects this inhibits the guitar from gaining a certain homogenized dimensional build up to its voice.

The difference in power of projection is not that noticeable in a concert hall but it does give audio feed back to the performer up close.

If you listen to a guitar with sound ports in performance, some differences are very noticeable compared to non-ported instruments, being that the non-ported have a greater sonority of sound.

But of course, it all depends on the guitar. But to gain an equal footing in comparison, we have to determine both to be close to the same quality. I have heard enough sound ports to say that my personal preference is the traditional style.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 18:09:08

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

I don't have a long experience of soundports but I have used them a couple of times on my own guitars and the port is something that I always keep in my toolbox for use in finetuning a guitar nowadays. It has improved some troublemakers for me where the guitars happened to be tuned too close to G resulting in a bad g note and sound.

The effect of a port, as measured with a frequency analyzing computer program, is 1. raising the "Helmholtz resonance" somewhat (depending on port area), 2. opening up for the second air resonance so it can correspond with the air outside the box (presuming the port is near the neck end of the box) and 3. working as a second air vent for the box.

Anders, I'm not saying that you're hearing is wrong and that your peghead did not get lower in tuning, but I believe that that lowering of the tuning was caused by a different relation between the neck resonance and the Helmholtz resonance. The Helmholtz ALWAYS get higher with a soundport. The moral of this is that some guitars may improve, others will not. It depends on the starting point.

Tom, I agree in most of what you say. I guess it is the air vent function of the port that "inhibits the guitar from gaining a certain homogenized dimensional build up to its voice". In my experience (which isn't that big) some guitars gain by losing some of that "build up". The instrument gets more relaxed so to say. And some guitars will not gain of losing that "build up". As you say, it all depends on the guitar, and once again, some guitars will improve, others will not, so my statement about soundports is that they should be used careful and with respect. Don't add ports to all your guitars at home folks!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 15 2009 20:30:27

Anders Eliasson

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Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

x

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2009 0:47:40

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: soundportparty in my patio (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Oh come on Anders! Just because I use a computer to frequency analyze it doesn't mean I have stopped using my ears or hands to experience the musical instrument and of course a computer can never say what is good or bad. I use the computer to help me understand (in a logic way) what eventually are happening. And I did never say that ports are bad or wrong in any way. I just tried to broaden the perspective and add some cautiousness. After building a couple of hundred guitars I have learnt that they are more complex than we can imagine and we cannot assume that every guitar behaves like those three guitars you show on the pictures above.

My feeling is that we quite often agree about things by the way.