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Cante por Rondeñas
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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 RE: Cante por Rondeñas (in reply to Matic)
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Hi Matic,
I recognize a few of those cantes when I hear them, but not in an analytical way. They just sound familiar or make me think, "Oh, this is the one that so-and-so sings with such-and-such a letra."
The thing to do is read a bit on the subject, get a bunch of recordings of these cantes abandolaos, learn all the letras and start comparing sung lines of verse. For example, in the Curro Lucena video, he starts in a relatively low register, but other cantes start off really high and strong. If you have 15 recordings, for example, in the end you'll probably find that there are just three or four different cantes. If you do this, you'll have done much more than most researchers and aficionados!
Part of the problem is that it's hard to describe music, so in the end you have to get the melodies inside your head. Also, sometimes the use of the cejilla or alternative toques makes something sound different when it's really not. Notice that Cañizares is accompanying Manuel Gerena por granaína. I mentioned reading on the subject, but of course it's much better to ask someone who knows how to explain the differences and can actually sing or at least hum the different melodies (you'll be able to once you get the melodies into your head). Reading might also give you an idea of the best singers of these styles (Fosforito and Rafael Romero are two from southeastern Spain, like Curro Lucena) and help you to find reliable references (liner notes from certain anthologies, etc.), which is really important when you study cante.
Hope that helps!
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Date Jul. 7 2009 2:12:35
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JasonMcGuire
Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007
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RE: Cante por Rondeñas (in reply to Ricardo)
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The difference I have found in accompanying Felix por Rondeña is that Rondeña doesn't go to the IV chord until the very end. Verdiales goes to the IV chord both in the middle and the end..... Rondeña: G7,C,G7,C,D7,G7,C,C7,F,E Verdiales: G7,C,C7,F (IV chord  ),G7,C,D7,G7,C,C7,F,E
I am positive there are more subtle differences from a cante perspective, but for a guitarist this seems to be the main difference. I could be wrong though, I am just basing it on performing it with one singer.
Felix puts 2 letras of Rondeña at the end of his Granaina that he sings as a cante solo in a lot of shows. For a while I thought it was just a Verdiales that omitted the IV chord in the middle, then one day I asked him and he told me that it wasn't Verdiales...... then I made a mental note about Rondeña and the IV chord thing.
Instead of assuming that you know what cante is being performed, ask the singer if you have the opportunity. They are usually just as impressed with you if you ask them, than if you already know. By asking them you are showing respect for the cante and in the end that is what every singer wants from their accompanist. If you respect it you can learn how to support it properly in performance.
J
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Date Jul. 7 2009 12:22:03
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: Cante por Rondeñas (in reply to Matic)
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Hi Matic,
I call all of them "cantes abandolaos" but I think I've seen the word "abandolás," (maybe from "malagueñas abandoladas") and I've heard people say verdiales, too. I'm not really sure what the right name is for the whole group, or if there are two or more groups. I'll see if I can dig up some information in the next few days. There are a number of cantes that use the same straight ternary rhythm, like certain malagueñas, fandangos de Lucena, the fandango de Frasquito Yerbagüena, verdiales, rondeñas, javeras, I think there's another one called jabegotas...and they're all basically just fandangos with different melodies and aires. The fandango of Frasquito is supposed to be identical to another cante that I might have already mentioned. I haven't thought about this stuff for a few years (since moving to Jerez; I only know two or three singers here who do those cantes) and I'll have to check my books.
The melodies of fandangos de Lucena and some cantes de Levante (mineras, etc.) share a peculiar flatted note (C if you're playing in F sharp phrygian). This seems to come from southeast Spain and is very different from flamenco in the southwest (Cádiz, Jerez, etc.) Interesting research has been done on this by Norberto Torres, although I think he says that he got the idea from Philip Donnierre (spelling?).
As you know, the classic accompaniment of these cantes is por arriba, but it's not surprising to hear other toques, especially on old 78rpm recordings. El Niño Gloria has a fandango de Lucena with Niño Ricardo accompanying por granaína. It all depends on how high or low the singer's voice is. It seems like this wasn't a problem for the best tocaores, who accompanied with several different toques (like the way Niño Ricardo made siguiriyas por arriba sound just as metallic and satisfying as por medio). Some say that Montoya created mineras tuning just for this reason (to accompany squeaky high voices), and I've even found a recording where he uses rondeñas tuning to accompany cante.
I've never liked those tree charts, but I'm not saying that to criticize you or anything. The Aljarafe chart has siguiriyas as a silly little appendage down at the bottom left. Although it comes right off the trunk, it makes it look like little more than an afterthought. I wouldn't expect accurate information from something that tries to turn cante into a cartoon. 
I'll see what I can find in the next few days.
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Date Jul. 8 2009 8:57:11
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: Cante por Rondeñas (in reply to Matic)
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quote:
that would be great if you took the time to dig into this even more
Hi Matic,
Glad to. You've given me a good reason to go back and have a look at the information!
I've just checked the CAF site
http://flun.cica.es/flamenco_y_universidad/BDatos/consulta.BDatos.php?interprete=EL+GLORIA&a_edicion=%25&n_disco=&formato=%25&palo=FANDANGOS&estilo=%25&t_cante=&guitarrista=
and there's no audio file or letra for Gloria's fandango de Lucena, but I noticed that it's the last one listed at the above link (the title is "Una pera, un peral no"). If you can find that, you'll have an example of that cante. When I've got some time, maybe I can upload it. It's pretty unusual.
There's another part of the CAF site
http://flun.cica.es/web/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=16
that has a lot of information on different styles. There's probably something there on rondeñas and other cantes.
Edit: I found some specific information at the above site, but I can't link directly to the page. If you click on the link, you'll see a page with a bunch of links to the left and three links in the center. If you check out the first two links of the three ("Aproximación" and "Didáctica"), there's more information on these cantes in the section called "fandangos abandolaos."
Sorry, but I really don't know of places for books in Seville. There's always the Corte Inglés (always worth having a look), but there are others on Google under "librería sevilla flamenco" like Compás Sur and Casa del Libro. I don't know anything about them, but it looks like they probably have a good selection of books on flamenco and maybe even a website (you might be able to see what's in stock). At the very least, one of those Google hits shows a bunch of book shops on the map, so you can probably plan ahead according to where you're going to be in Seville.
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Date Jul. 9 2009 11:27:12
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: Cante por Rondeñas (in reply to Matic)
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Okay, here's some information:
The group of cantes has a few different names. You usually hear "cantes abandolaos" or "cantes de Málaga," and some people say "fandangos malagueños." If you call the group "verdiales" everyone will understand, but verdiales is just one of the cantes in this group. So it's like the cantiñas group and alegrías in that sense.
Nearly all descriptions of this group of cantes mention verdiales, jaberas and rondeñas, but there's also the zángano, the jabegote (jury's still out on that one), the fandango de Frasquito Hierbabuena and others. It looks like some of the cantes abandolaos came from a series of local fandangos from Málaga, Lucena, Granada and Almería that were the ancient folklore of the people who lived there. Manuel Cano wrote that flamenco singers came up with their own artistic versions of these local fandangos. The new creations were more difficult, so they were sung by professionals rather than housewives or farmers, for example. The flamencólogos don't offer much information on those ancient fandangos, saying that they're long lost and all we have today are the personal flamenco versions. For example, they say that the fandango de Granada turned into the granaína, the fandango de Almería became the taranta, etc. But there are still references to these ancient forms if you look hard enough.
The word fandango goes way back in time. According to Antonio and David Hurtado (in the Pastora anthology), the word "fandanguero" was used in Jerez in 1464 to refer to black and white slaves who "organized dances and nighttime scandals."
It looks like the "local-fandango-to-cantes-libres" transition took place in southeast Andalusia late in the 19th century. At about the same time, the toná-soleá-siguiriya aficionados in southwest Spain were doubling their repertoire and the estilos festeros were consolidating, and shortly afterward the ida y vuelta cantes became popular.
The cantes abandolaos come from the area between Málaga and Córdoba, where you'll find towns like Cabra, Lucena, Puente Genil, etc. The oldest forms are supposed to be rondeñas and jaberas, which, according to the book Mundo y Formas, were originally cantes libres. I haven't come across that in any other books, although some of the really old recordings are in fact sung without the abandolao rhythm.
Here are four rondeñas. There are more versions by El Mochuelo, Rafael Romero, Beni de Cádiz, Juan Varea and Virginia Gámez. Rafael Romero seems to be the only one to sing the first line in a lower register. I've heard a lot of singers do it like that, and it adds a really nice feeling of calm. All the other examples follow El Cojo's version, starting off in the high register. Juan Varea recorded a slightly different rondeña that starts with an even higher note and stretches out the conclusion in the lower register, like Fosforito. Notice that Niño Almadén's version repeats the last line of verse because it's a four-liner.
Cojo de Málaga with Borrull in 1924.
A la sandía el color
María tú le has robado
a la sandía el color
a la nieve su blancura
y a la luna el resplandor
a la Virgen su hermosura
Rafael Romero with Perico del Lunar in 1950s.
Para acabarlo de criar
cogí un pájaro de un nido
para acabarlo de criar
y fue tan agradecido
que cuando lo eché a volar
se vino hacia el hombro mío
Niño Almadén with Perico del Lunar in 1950s.
Navegando me perdí
por esos mares de Dios
navegando me perdí
y con la luz de tus ojos
a puerto de mar salí
a puerto de mar salí
Fosforito with Paco de Lucía (late 60s early 70s?).
Ya no le importa a la fuente
corre con rumbo perdido
que no le importa a la fuente
que va buscando los ríos
el arroyo nunca vuelve
al sitio donde nació
There are cantes abandolaos on a few of the Rito y Geografía DVDs, especially the one on the Cordobés singer Pedro Lavado.
I've uploaded the MP3s to my website but I'm just about out of space and will have to delete them after a while.
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Date Jul. 16 2009 7:12:00
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