RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contemporary Flamenco Guitar

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Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Guest)

It's interesting that we can fill so much space bashing an individual, much more than we could say positive stuff about anybody.

Most of the time we take Paco de Lucia's genius for granted...we don't constantly have 5 page threads full of hero-worshiping of any individual (until Ruben came along).
Why can't we equally take it for granted that Ruben is a fool and leave it at that? We all know everyone agrees.

Personally I got over it a long time ago. You guys remind of the "Real Housewives of New Jersey"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2009 13:23:24

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Guest)

You know what discples are, don't you?
They follow without questioning...so one day He Himself, the master of the greats, decided to share the plectrum among us all,.... a new PDL technique!!!!
Or did that exist before?????

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2009 13:56:08

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

lol...that was exactly what I needed kozz...a good laugh

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2009 14:12:15

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

yes, me too....

But uh...just watching a part from Pepe Martinez in the Rito y G.d.Cante Flamenco and he says something like this:

question: Do you know any muscic theory?
answer: No No No, that's not necessary because flamenco is always moving...

And I believe he's right....you go a few steps forward, like e.g. PDL did, , and then you go back to the base with that knowledge and find another path...
That's what Fusion is is all about....
Another interesting part in the series was that the same thing happend with the different cantes....and offcourse people also claiming this is my style

...the last thing is really funny, it;s part of the culture I suppose, but....few of them could claim it, just by phrasing it in the correct matter, they really had a big AIRE, a nice one!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2009 14:35:06

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Got to agree with Florian; and I think bashing any one individual, Ruben or not, gets a little stale after a while. Don't mind me though, I'll just stay on the sidelines.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2009 17:13:38

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

[Deleted by Admins]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2009 18:06:34

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Guest)

quote:

He HAD his chance and he wasted it (with several warnings and some in spanish) by being cocky, disrespectful and closed minded.

yeah i know we could, and he maybe even deserves it but it dosent necesarely mean that we should (thats like kicking a person when hes down from behind a safe screen door)...back then we all had a reason he was beeing personal with some members here..but that cant be the case now because he cant post here, hes not and hasent been here to attack anyone in a while

if this continues now its different, we not defending anyone..its us doing the attacking (for his views...however wrong we might find em)

my point is not that he should be allowed to replie...its that hes out of here...we won, lets not taunt him (we all agree, his issues extend well beyond us and our forum)..alone we might all be able to give in to human reactions and give him what he "deserves" but when it becomes a goup activity we got more to take in consideration it reflects more on the whole forum....since we got what we wanted and theres alot more of us we should be able to be the "bigger" person in this..

this is not about ruben its about forum integrity..the forum dosent bash people or keep personal vendetas against individuals for beeing different. or even "unlikable"....the more of us join in this activitie the more it becomes the "forum"...while alone i might not always have the wisdom or the strength to do the right thing id like to belive that the "forum" does..the forum integrity is bigger then all of our personal feelings put togheder...its our midlle ground and it takes no sides, keeps no gurdges and certainly dosent kick people when they allready down...its why u love it..absolute fair and equal to everyone..

some of u know it only takes one or 2 pharagraps to be the Villan or the Hero here and that can change from second to second...its not always real...but the forum uncomprimising integrity and fairnes as a group is

the problem about continiously keeping someones face down in the mud is that you continiously have to get in the gutter and stay there with him

lol i know its a litlle too deep a litlle too early in the morning and now i gave myself a hedaiche thinking of ways to describe it...i got no problems ****ing up on my own lol...but i take the forums integrity more serious

arguments, discussions its different

bashing someone as a group who is not here or allowed to replie or defend himself is another..its not about him its about us liking what we have built here

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2009 19:12:17

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Ron.M)

[Deleted by Admins]

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2009 22:52:55

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to HemeolaMan)

quote:

my favorite thing is that it says his father was a student of segovia's

" I have only one teacher, and that is myself....and only one student, and that is myself" - Andres Segovia

Getting back to the paper, I have to say Its pretty annoying to see the work of Gerardo Nuñez reduced to the following.

"Gerardo Nuñez (b. 1961)

Analysing: Bulerias
Guitar: Negra (Rosewood)
Performing position: Crossed leg. Same as Paco de Lucia.

Harmonic Analysis

Key
Chords used g#m*, Im, II7, bIII, IVm, Vm, V7b9, bVI7, bVI7,9, bVI7maj,
natVII, bVII
Auxiliary Dominants: V/bIII, V/IV
Substitute Dominants: none"

And this is the basis for the conclusion that Gerardo Nuñez has not "done any innovation or contribution in any field of flamenco guitar."

If Rubens posts get approved I would like to ask if firstly he has ever seen the Gerardo Nuñez teaching video, if he has ever seen Gerardo Nuñez play live, and how he explains the attributes the following to paco de Lucia.

1. Slap bass technique in "Hacia mi"
2. 3 fingered picado was used on one string in pacos columbiana. Multi string 3 fingered picado runs first appear in Nuñez recordings.
3. Alzapua on one string melodies such as in Nunez verdialles
4. Tunings such as Eb, Bb, Gb, D, A, E, The drop Bass C and D# treble, are as far as I know never recorded by Paco de lucia.
5. Farruca in drop D, Farruca in Tono rondeña, Solea por buleria/ buleria in rondeña, solea in Drop C. All of these can be considered innovations. One of the most inventive things about Gerardos music is to change the tunings and keys of the different palos to get new tonalities. This experimentation can not be all attributed to Paco de lucia.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2009 0:34:26

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

If Rubens posts get approved I would like to ask if firstly .........

Pim that would be pointless. It's obvious that Ruben isn't going to be able to answer those questions sensibly and it will just end in another discussion like this one. We all seem to agree that his assertions have no real evidence behind them. I know it's annoying when he belittles the contribution of anyone but PdL, but I just don't think he can see straight at the moment.

Here's my suggestion:

This thread has gone on for 4 pages, and that's without Ruben's contributions! Shall we talk about something else now?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2009 1:04:09

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

Shall we talk about something else now?

Jepp, we shall.. all this Paco here Paco there makes tired... If Ruben wants to answere he can start an onw forum on his site or a guestbook. Lets continue here with flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2009 4:57:42

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

Song For Florian (in reply to Florian)

quote:

some of u know it only takes one or 2 pharagraps to be the Villan or the Hero here and that can change from second to second...its not always real...but the forum uncomprimising integrity and fairnes as a group is

the problem about continiously keeping someones face down in the mud is that you continiously have to get in the gutter and stay there with him

lol i know its a litlle too deep a litlle too early in the morning and now i gave myself a hedaiche thinking of ways to describe it...i got no problems ****ing up on my own lol...but i take the forums integrity more serious

LOL! Flo....

Good words man....

Actually this tune always makes me think of you.

You don't let anything get you really down....which is a great quality for anyone to have.

or a version for a younger audience....

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2009 11:30:29

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

lol thank you i am flatered...

...love sinatra

ps...upseting things get me down just like everyone else...but i try to let go of it quickly just cause it takes too much energy to hold on...sometimes i succed sometimes it takes me a couple of days lol "thats life" ...same as everyone

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2009 2:19:14

joseglez

Posts: 26
Joined: Sep. 1 2008
From: San Juan, Puerto Rico

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

Very soon he will publish his autobiography, "The Audacity of Rubén".

I would rather take lessons with the flamingo girl.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 4 2009 15:47:03

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jul. 6 2009 1:34:45
Reason for deletion: open to legal challenge

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 5 2009 12:55:26

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Paco de Lucia and the Contempora... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

I have deleted an email posted here and some comments arising on the basis that:

1. It is a private communication, not obviously intended for publication.
2. Calling into question someone's credentials is one thing, publicly calling them a liar is another and the owner of this forum i.e. myself, is in no position to judge claim or counter-claim - nor do I wish to.

Please refer to this FAQ.

This thread is now locked - please move on.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2009 1:44:23