Dented Back - Yamaha CG171SF

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Posts: 72
Joined: May 21 2009

Dented Back - Yamaha CG171SF

Hi, Group,

Suddenly had a chance to get a used Yamaha CG171SF for $150 because of a dent on its back, where it meets the inside part of the heel of the neck (? I'm not that familiar with luthery jargon so those may not be the right terms). You can actually make out the outline of the heel inside because the crack sort of travels along its edge.

But a photo is worth a thousand words, so here are 4,000 words attached: (1) the dent as viewed full on, (2) from the left, (3) from the right, and (4) peering inside the sound hole. Seems to have some splintering, but as far as I can tell, no open cracks. However there is a definite indentation, as can be seen from the way the center stripe isn't straight in photos (2) and (3).

So my question to the luthiers here is this: What's the prognosis? Is this worth repairing? If I leave it as is and play it every day, how many years/months/days left before it finally cracks and doubles over?

It actually has a very flamenco sound (the owner installed a bone saddle and lowered the action, 3mm from top of fretboard to bottom of first string, a bit LESS than that (maybe 2.8mm) for sixth string). I know this is the reverse of what's usual, no idea why-- but no buzzing anywhere. Maybe the guitar has started to bow? Just eyeballing though, it looks straight.

Also for some reason, if you tune it by matching the notes played on a keyboard, it tends to be very slightly off when tuning by harmonics, but IMO not enough to notice.

I look forward to hearing the opinions of the group!

Best, X.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 21 2009 17:27:18

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Dented Back - Yamaha CG171SF (in reply to X)

to be honest, its not worth repairing.

That guitar has plywood back and sides I think. If it were cypress or rosewood it;d be worth it, but the repair will cost you more than the guitar.

I don't think you'll really see it progress much. unlesss you jump on it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 21 2009 18:58:49

stephen hill

Posts: 300
Joined: Feb. 16 2004
From: La Herradura, Granada, Spain

RE: Dented Back - Yamaha CG171SF (in reply to X)

sadly I would agree, it looks like ply, with a heavy lacquer on top, it would need stripping, repairing, and then refinishing, and even then if its a thin veneer would look pretty bad! let it go, and just play it! use on the beach, in the sauna, on the ski slopes, it will be ok....!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 22 2009 1:05:32

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Dented Back - Yamaha CG171SF (in reply to X)

I am not a luthier but it looks like it's cracking around the "foot" of the neck where it is glued to the back.

Here's a still of my Anders guitar under construction. The guitar is face down and the foot is facing up. You can see it is a large glueing area to anchor the neck.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 22 2009 4:55:29

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Dented Back - Yamaha CG171SF (in reply to X)

Just play it.

The back and sides are laminate and the finish is poly (very hard to spot-repair). The Yamaha has a block joint rather than a Spanish heel so I don't think the structural integrity of the guitar is compromised.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 22 2009 14:40:39

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Dented Back - Yamaha CG171SF (in reply to X)

It's not worth repairing and I wouldn't get to attached to this instrument. You'll probably have issues with the guitar going out of tune so if you are serious about flamenco be prepared to upgrade to a better instrument.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 22 2009 14:53:58

Posts: 72
Joined: May 21 2009

RE: Dented Back - Yamaha CG171SF (in reply to X)

Hey, guys,

Thanks a lot for the info, comments and advice. I had an inkling this would not only be a knowledgeable and helpful group, but a fun group as well (play it on the BEACH??? 8D

Actually, I already have a mint CG171SF. In fact I was sorta hoping that this one would double over. Then I could start screwing around with it and see if I'd enjoy lutherie as a hobby (been thinking about it, but Orange Coast College no longer offers their guitar-making class).

I'd start with really simple things, like changing the tuners, stripping the lacquer and repolish, etc, each time transferring the successful experiments to my other CG171SF. Then maybe, after me and the local luthiers (there's two) tired of tinkering around with the stuff inside e.g. bracing, I'd eventually get a solid replacement back and put that in. You get the idea.

I'd keep the label, of course. Then I'd start bringing it to events and juergas and blow away the $15K Condes with my "$350" Yamaha. Then when arguments start that I just happened to luck into a one-in-a-million fluke Yamaha, I'd pull out my other CG171SF and blow them away again.

Or not. Back in the 80s my best friend was a car enthusiast who modified his 1983 Mazda RX-7 into a high-performance Porsche killer that looked completely stock, and leave many Porsche drivers with their jaws dragging in the dust he did. BUT there was one particular vehicle he NEVER could best... his Moby Dick was a black 1984 Corvette driven by some rich kid from Lichtenstein (?). Still and all, great fun.

OK, enough daydreaming. It's Miller time.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 22 2009 16:29:12

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Dented Back - Yamaha CG171SF (in reply to X)

for stripping the finish, note that it is polyeurethane. lacquer is different and would be easy to strip in comparison!

poly will require an electric sander for sure. I did it once... and never again!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 22 2009 22:23:51