Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvir, Philip John Lee and Craig Eros who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





RE: The Cante accompaniment challenge!! Finally   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Challenges >>Previous Challenges >> Page: <<   <   1 2 [3] 4 5    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
duende

Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Andy Culpepper

i tryed playing in B (Granaina) and that makes a bit more airy fell to it. More mellow
The por medio makes it more dense

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2009 3:00:43
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Florian

So as Deteresa suggested i will uptade a litlle and write whos involved so far in this challenge...if you are not on the list and would like to be involved please let me know..so we have some kind of idea....i had some members who were on the intermediate challenge tread who said they were interested but i just copyed members who said it here that they are in


also if anyone has any questions about anything to do with the challenge/rules or cante... or needs some help ..is welcome to ask here..we realize not everyone gets alot of practice with a singer

Challengers in big lights

Duende
John O
Stu
Muninn ?
Deteresa
mrMagenta
gj Michelob
Florian
Deniz
srshea
xirdneH_imiJ
Matic
Anders Eliasson
bursche
edguerin
romerito




Panel of judges

Félix de Lola
JasonMcGuire
Ricardo
NormanKliman
Sean
Kate & Harold
Doitsujin



Also dont forghet...in Addition to the panel of Judges scores ...we also put it to a public vote..
Judges vote x2
Public (since we dont know what kind of numbers and experience to expect) x1

I know the scoring system is a litlle more complicated then the past but i think it will offer a good balanced view..its unfair to ignore Public preception...but at the same time theres no point having a panel of judges u identifie as expert judges when they vote will just be overun in the first 10 minutes of public voting who may or may not know about cante..


so under the circumstances i think it makes for fair scoring ..or atleast interesting..wel see , again we will learn from this

Toddk do you wanna be involved ?

Romerito ?


anyone else ?

Btw...like Doit i am getting addicted to all the big writting

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2009 21:33:51
 
duende

Posts: 3051
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to duende

nuthin

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2009 21:47:44
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to duende

I dont know what you talking about u must have imagined it...i am a greate speller

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 20 2009 21:49:42
 
Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Florian

quote:

i am a greate speller


Indeed you are Flo and I think that proves your point perfectly (there is no 'e' on the end of great )

Your spelling is unique and has certain consistency. You always spell laugh, 'lough', and you always put an 'h' in forget - 'forghet'.

But more importantly language is for communication, and we understand each other, so it's all kuul

_____________________________

http://www.flamencojourney.com
http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 0:18:06
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Ailsa

Its how we spell in the hood..

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 0:34:24
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Florian

Hi Flo,

I'd rather not judge in this one, thanks.

I'm not really qualified or experienced in this area, except just to give my vote on the "general" sound of the piece, like anyone else could.

I think the folk who actually accompany and who are not contestants themselves should judge ie..

Jason (& Felix of course)
Ricardo
Sean
Norman
DonS ?

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 3:13:11
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Ron.M

ok , thanks for beeing humble..


u should know that even someone that listens to alot off cante is ok by me...so its up to you...


does anyone else fancy himself in the panel of judges for this ? making his score x2 for this ?

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 3:19:16
 
Matic

 

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to duende

I'm in.

_____________________________

vengo de los san migueles
si no me caso este año que yo
me caso el año que viene
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 3:42:47
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to duende

That could become a very interesting challenge.. But if the contestants play the rights chords...the judging will be 100% subjective. Im looking forward to hear all the versions. ;.)
Anyway nice challenge idea.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 4:22:05
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Doitsujin

yes ofcourse it will be subjective.. also besides the right chords theres a few other litlle things that are distinctive of sole por buleria accomp that i would look for if i was judging..but at the end of the day everyone judges according to them


doit are you getting involved ?

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 4:32:39
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Florian

Hi Flo,

I've been thinking about it and I feel that a "public" content to the vote would not really be helpful in this particular challenge.

I'd say leave this one to the experienced judges and have the other challenges open to a certain percentage of Public voting....especially on something such as the "Composition" one where public opinion is probably MORE important than the "expert" judges opinion.

At the end of the day, probably Felix's opinion will be the most important.

It would seem totally crazy if someone got the highest score from the guitarists and Felix hated it!

What do you think?

Just my 3 dollars worth.. (Ahem ...hint, hint..)

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 4:37:43
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Ron.M

Hmm...yes maybe you right...i dont know


but in anycase if we decide to do that we need more then 5 or 6 judges if, make it a bitt more broad...if anyone else has any experience accompanying or listening to alot of cante please dont be shy or modest...we have to judge it somehow( we wont assume that you see yourself as a cante guru )...come foward...even new members are ok...Ideal is 13 - 15 Judges



So i open it to discussion, id like to know what Jason thinks, Felix, Norman ? anyone thats involved in this ...is not just for me to decide or it will be eazyer to make an informed decision once i know how majority of people involved with this feel about it

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 4:43:51
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Florian

quote:

...Ideal is 13 - 15 Judges


!!!!!!

That will be more Judges than contestants probably.


I feel it's not so much about whether you like the guitar style or falseta or not, but more about playing "correct" chords in the right place and at the right time.
(ie following the singer and not leading or making the singer feel "uncomfortable" with regards to chords and compás)

To get constructive feedback and advice, you need experienced Judges on this IMO.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 5:10:07
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

That will be more Judges than contestants probably



its early days...i am sure there will be more contestants

quote:

I feel it's not so much about whether you like the guitar style or falseta or not, but more about playing "correct" chords in the right place and at the right time.
(ie following the singer and not leading or making the singer feel "uncomfortable" with regards to chords and compás)

To get constructive feedback and advice, you need experienced Judges on this IMO.


Ofcourse i agree ...thats why we have Felix for expert feedback...but even an expert is subject to own preferences..


I cant do it. ..ever since Ceaushescu i cant let just one person be the only judge ..or even 4...whatever it is it needs to be a balanced view...youl have to kill me before i ever hand all the power to just one guy thats not suggesting ofcourse that anyone would abuse it...its just a history fear

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 5:14:14
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to duende

quote:

doit are you getting involved ?


I want to serve as judge.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 5:14:35
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Florian

Yeah, but if you had say 12 Contestants and 12 Judges that would give 12X12=144 comments and scores to read!

I doubt if many folk would have the stamina for that!

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 5:19:50
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Doitsujin

quote:

I want to serve as judge.



why are you smilling like that ? u scaring me ....it looks like you have revenge in your mind

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 5:20:32
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Florian

quote:

Yeah, but if you had say 12 Contestants and 12 Judges that would give 12X12=144 comments and scores to read!

I doubt if many folk would have the stamina for that!

cheers,

Ron


I am not sure I know what you mean...also dont forghet to take in account the 2 or 3 contestants that will drop out of the competition half way through and the judge who forghets that he was sopossed to score..

we had about 9 judges for my first challenge....this is not that big of a difference

and besides..what else is there to do ? this is a big deal here at the forum since its the first of its kind....it wont be as crazy as you think...not all judges will write feedback and we still havent yet decided if we do open it to the general voting

it will be ok...imo

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 5:26:21
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5063
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to duende

quote:


why are you smilling like that ? u scaring me ....it looks like you have revenge in your mind


No, Im serious. I put the skile there because you asked if I want to involve myself. That made me happy.

For the judging you could count the rating of Felix and other experienced people in playing for singing with 100% and the unexperienced with 50% to reduce weird scoring. But when thinking twice...I think nobody want to be degraded to a second quality judge... So... if the judges think about themselves "I have almost no idea what is good and what is bad"... they could give ratings with a closer range between all the contestants. That would also avoid weird judging.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2009 6:50:15
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Florian

About the judges' experience with and knowledge of the subject, I think this is exactly the same as the other challenges. For the intermediate challenge that I judged a few months ago, I learned the music before listening to the entries. I was glad that I did because it definitely gave me a better understanding of what people were trying to do. I think it would be ideal for all the judges to do the same whenever there's a challenge, but we can't expect that to happen because not everybody has the time (I almost didn't in that intermediate challenge), and the reduced number of available forum members means that at some point there are going to be judges who use only their ears.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but another thing worth considering is that in real life, the accompaniment influences the singer's performance in real time, and that's obviously not going to happen here. I'm not saying the challenge won't work or be interesting, though.

quote:

youl have to kill me before i ever hand all the power to just one guy


Good one, Flo Seems to be one of our more unfortunate tendencies as human beings, but is it because we want a leader or because we don't trust each other?

_____________________________

Be here now.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 22 2009 0:11:46
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to NormanKliman

quote:

because we want a leader or because we don't trust each other?


mm i dont know lol...is not a matter of trust its a matter of prespective...i am sure one guy is convinced hes doing right as far as he knows but that dosent necesarely mean that he is..

so i trust anyone guy...i just dont trust the ods if hes wrong..


ofcourse now i am reffering to polotics...nothing to do with any of this or anyone here

quote:

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but another thing worth considering is that in real life, the accompaniment influences the singer's performance in real time, and that's obviously not going to happen here. I'm not saying the challenge won't work or be interesting, though.


yes ofcourse i know u right...but its not even about that...its about us paying so much attention to the solea por buleria por cante and researching it so much that our own accompanying gets betters because of it...also pick up different ideas etc..


with a cante challenge we will feel like a full flamenco forum...not just a guitar forum imo...flamenco without cante always feels like just half the story...

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 22 2009 3:25:22
 
Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

Just my 3 dollars worth.. (Ahem ...hint, hint..)


Gosh Ron, is that a really obscure reference to the fact that hardly anybody has contributed to the Foro Prize fund yet?

C´mon guys put your hands in your pockets......

_____________________________

http://www.flamencojourney.com
http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 22 2009 4:58:18
 
Florian

Posts: 9240
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to duende

maybe somenone post the email we should donate to here...i know i forghot where i sent it..and there was talk of it changing ?

_____________________________

Rest In Peace Ron, I will never ever forget you my friend.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 22 2009 11:02:50
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to duende

Can I decide on whether to join or not later, or do I just join now and maybe bail out later?
My time is a bit so-so, and I´m away most of September, but I would like to challenge.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2009 0:25:58
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 2955
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

Can I decide on whether to join or not later, or do I just join now and maybe bail out later?
My time is a bit so-so, and I´m away most of September, but I would like to challenge.


I don't know, I would love to have you in this...why don't we just put you down as "in" and you can bailout if you need to. You can always record early and send it in to whoever is taking the entries ahead of time I think.

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2009 16:51:20
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to duende

Ok, then I´m in.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 23 2009 22:35:35
 
bursche

Posts: 1181
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to Anders Eliasson

I'm in too, although I have little accompaniment experience.

_____________________________

Visit me on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRaGz6Lf-Uz0HxUv-dGQFLQ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 24 2009 8:21:31
 
edguerin

Posts: 1558
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to duende

Is there a deadline to be counted in?

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 24 2009 8:23:50
 
bursche

Posts: 1181
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: The Cante accompaniment challeng... (in reply to bursche

There's one problem: my digital microphone is too slow for monitoring. I have to see if I can actually do the recording.

_____________________________

Visit me on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRaGz6Lf-Uz0HxUv-dGQFLQ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 24 2009 9:07:09
Page:   <<   <   1 2 [3] 4 5    >   >>
All Forums >>Challenges >>Previous Challenges >> Page: <<   <   1 2 [3] 4 5    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.0625 secs.