Intermediate Challenge!!!

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at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

Intermediate Challenge!!!

Intermediate Challenge

Start: August 10
End: October 26, 11 pm UK time.

Falsetta:
Chicuelo from beginning to 51 seconds. Then Pepe from 3:26 until the end.
You can hear it HERE
Capo 3

The tabs and audio are available through Deniz. Thanks Deniz! Please, ask Deniz for the files only if you're really considering to participate.
Stu has also posted a combined tablature of the piece. You can get it HERE

Compas loops:
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=116383&appid=0&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#116386

PRIZE:
Two 1hour lessons via skype with Todd! Thanks Todd!

Contestants:
at_leo
deniz
aleksi
gabrielcito
mrmagenta
peghead48
tgerman
chapman_g
beno
gshaviv
polishcomedy
jenny

Judges:
Todd
xirdneH_imiJ
GJ Michelob
Duende
Florian
Matic
Ron
Deteresa1
Doitsujin
Jason
Ricardo

Judging Method:
Once the deadline for entry submission has passed, Ailsa will post all the attempts up for review.

All judges will send their scores and comments to Ailsa, instead of posting them directly on to the thread.

Each contestant will also send their scores to Ailsa by email. The contestant will not judge himself for obvious reasons.

A 75/25 relation will be implemented. That means the judges' results will be multiplied by 3, before adding them to the challengers votes. In the end, we count both scores together and divide by two.

Ailsa will then post all the scores and comment once the deadline for judging has passed or until she has received all judge's and challenger's scores.

***Please email your attempts to Ailsa.

flamencoguitarcourse@yahoo.co.uk

This is important: Be sure to include your user name so she knows who you are and also your code name. I've gotten so many people sending me files without saying a darn thing. Very irritating.

Thanks Ailsa!

***Codename: Please pick a type of wood for your code name.

***Recording Rules:
-everything must be done in one take. no punching in/editing.
-reverb, eq, stuff like that is okay.
-you must use a compas loop.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2009 15:45:20

Stu

Posts: 2526
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

I'd be interested, but don't have any ideas at this time of night.

maybe some solea por bulerias!?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 12 2009 17:19:44

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to Stu)

quote:

don't have any ideas at this time of night

What sort of flamenco are you?

Guys, I offered months ago to be admin for the intermediate challenge. You have a willing helper

But I can't help you with what you should learn to challenge yourselves.

But if you want prizes, look at this thread:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=105805&appid=&p=&mpage=2&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#110361

_____________________________

http://www.flamencojourney.com
http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2009 0:43:58

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to Ailsa)

Ailsa thats great of you! I would also be glad to offer my helpings, and maybe leo too?

To structure the points that need to be covered:

- Which falseta(s)?
- What deadlines?
- Which judges and judgment method?

For falsetas i like the idea of Solea por B. Chicuelo, Pepe Habichuela have some intermediate material on Encuentro for that. But i also had a look at Tomatitos Tangos, the one with the special tuning, and its intermediate also. Great piece imo!

Leo, agreed on the timelines! One month practice, one or two weeks after the beginners challenge sonds good.

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2009 1:57:21

aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

Hola amigos,

intermediate challenge sounds great, you can count me in. solea por buleria is fine by me, I dont have the ones Deniz suggested but if they are good then suits me.

the tangos with special tuning is a great tune I agree, but for me its not so tempting, but from tomatitos enquentro some solbul or the 3th alegria falseta could be nice for examble. That looks like good thump exercise and it sounds cool also.

In the moment Im not avare of the other challange, but when ever we would like to start its fine by me. One month of practising is also good, I can do my best and see how much of the falseta I can manage and how, but I like good challanges.

If we can get some judges that will be great. We have had many challanges now so hopefully somebody still have some power for judging. Anyway it will be nice to collectively do some falseta and after see the outcomes, its nice. It will be a fun project from beginning to the end.

ps. Im jamming and learning some alegria on C and if you know some tunes in that key, I would appreciate if you could share them with me so I could get some ideas how to do it. Mostly what I have they are in E and from C I dont have any.

and thanks for everybody for this exelent and lively forum. I havent been able to write here for awhile, but Ive enjoyed listening the advanced challege and the uploads and reading some conversations.
Ole! to everybody making this happen.

adios amigos

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2009 5:26:33

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

- Which falseta(s)?

solea por bulerias sounds real cool. great thinking stu! whatever falsetta we decide on, we must make sure we have tabs and audio readily available for contestants.

quote:

- What deadlines?

in the other thread, it's been mentioned that maybe the intermediates should go before the beginners challenge. i would feel bad if this happened. the beginners are ahead of the intermediates with their planning and they're almost ready to go.
i dont think there would be any bad consequences if the two happened within a week or two of each other, the beginners going first.

quote:

- Which judges and judgment method?

we know having a set panel of judges works. but it takes time to pick out judges. the poll method is new and therefore risky. can we decide after we start? i just want to start playing

quote:

Guys, I offered months ago to be admin for the intermediate challenge. You have a willing helper But I can't help you with what you should learn to challenge yourselves.

thanks, Ailsa! i think the only reason the beginners are already onto their third challenge is because of Ailsa's enthusiastic and proactive personality. so welcome aboard! we need a leader like you!

im going to hunt down the two previous beginner's challenge winners and see if they want to join in.

aleksi, glad you're in! im learning some alegrias too, really simple stuff. check out my alegrias post in the audio/video section and tell me what you think!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2009 9:52:04

RTC

Posts: 667
Joined: Aug. 20 2008
From: DFW Area, Texas

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

When is the bigginer challange going to be posted?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2009 11:00:32

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to Ailsa)

i wonder if i can enter the new immediate challenge? i entered the advanced one purely because i won the last intermediate and felt obliged to do so...if i happened to win i'd of course not be awarded with prizes...
just wondering...
about falseta (or perhaps whole piece?) i was just looking at Lunares Negros, a seguiriya by Quique Paredes and it looks and feels about intermediate level...
or maybe there's Tomatito's Minera, in Encuentro, or almost anything in the Pepe Habichuela Encuentro book...maybe a falseta or two from his fandangos?

if i'm not allowed to enter, then i'll gladly be a judge :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2009 12:30:49

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to RTC)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RTC

When is the bigginer challange going to be posted?

Well the video and tab are already available. I just need to firm up on the judges and the date. Will try to get that sorted tomorrow, but go ahead and start to learn the piece anyway.

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http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2009 14:27:32

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to at_leo_87)

[Deleted by Admins]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 13 2009 15:04:45

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

Shroomy, you're in!

ok, so we got six people so far. I think it's fair to let imij_xirdneh compete. I don't see why not.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 14 2009 20:01:44

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

Well either he is "in" and competes for the prize as any challenger or he is out of the challenge and can share any mp3 at any time, like any other member can post anything anytime too. I am open to everything, you decide, yet i have to mention that these challenges were set up with the rule that the winner has to move to the next level. As i said, any member of this page can decide to share his mp3s at any time he wants to.

Regarding judgement method, i didnt mean poll, i meant we could try out challengers judging themselves, as additional judgement to the regular judges. Everyone judges all challengers like a normal judge would do, exept your one mp3. I dont see why this shouldnt work, or any negative thing about it. To prevent any complications, challengers judge first by sending a mail to Ailsa (within 1 or 2 days), and then the official judges can make comments (because their points can be seen by the challengers...). The challenger's emails are kept secret until the end. Count them out, add them to the other judgments and divide it by two. Hehe, that would add alot of excitement too, because you dont know who wins until the end!

Regarding falseta, I have the Encuentro material from Pepe H and Chicuelo with their Solea por Buleriasses, so i could provice tab+video+mp3. I find Tomatitos SolpB harder than intermediate i must say.

_____________________________

Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2009 2:37:24

ricecrackerphoto

Posts: 265
Joined: Feb. 5 2006

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

i'm definitely up for this challenge. i like both solea por bulerias from pepe and chichuelo and they are both a big stretch for me. so let's do this!

doug

_____________________________

http://www.ricecracker.net

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2009 3:41:18

gabrielcito

Posts: 13
Joined: Feb. 7 2009
From: Atlanta, Georgia

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

Count me in for a new intermediate challenge, too. Solea por bulerias? Let's do this.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2009 4:37:09

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to at_leo_87)

[Deleted by Admins]

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2009 7:21:48

aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

Tomatitos solbul is hard but sounds cool though. I dont know would I be even able to play any of the falsetas, but surely some compas atleast.

Deniz, if the falsetas you have are nice and more playable than tomatitos and you can provide the material then I say lets do one of them. Maybe you can upload both here and we could do a little vote to see which people like more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2009 12:15:06

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

I'm a bit bogged down but I'd like to give this a shot. A Solea por Bulerias falseta sounds fine. I'm up for anything really :-)

If we are to have a prize, I would feel really bad about participating without having made a contribution to the prize fund. Would it be reasonable to have that as a prerequisite?

The reason I haven't donated to the fund is that I'm saving each and every penny for A. My next private lesson B. My future guitar C. A can of Mean Beanz for dinner. But if the contribution would be made mandatory and consist of a reasonable sum, it would qualify as one of those unforgiving type bills you simply can not escape, and thus fate will conspire to solve the issue.. in some manner.

I'm totally cool with having no prize at all too, though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2009 13:12:51

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to aleksi)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aleksi

Deniz, if the falsetas you have are nice and more playable than tomatitos and you can provide the material then I say lets do one of them. Maybe you can upload both here and we could do a little vote to see which people like more.

I think thats problematic because of copyrights? Both are great, cant do anything wrong in learning them... i would prefer Habichuela because i find it a bit more rich musically and already learned some of Chicuelos falsetas!

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2009 13:40:09

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

so far, for contestants we have:

stu
at_leo
deniz
aleksi
shroomy726
rickercrackerphoto
gabrielcito
mrmagenta
alex_lord
peghead48
tgerman
chapman_g
beno

xirdneh_imij, maybe you can upload your mp3 after the competition as deniz has suggested? you'll be an unofficial contestant. this will give you a good position as a judge too as you'll know the piece as well as we do.

now, all that's left is deciding

1) what falsetta?
chicuelo or habichuela

2) what judging method?
traditional set judging panel, poll, or the deniz method (read above)

I want to get this thing going by this coming Monday or the one after.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2009 14:36:57

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

that's only fair, i'll gladly be a judge then and i'll try to concentrate on composing something for the other challenge (something i've never done before, should be interesting)...
but let me tell you if there's enough time it'll be much better to play more than a falseta, more material means more things learned by the contestants and more material for us to judge on, also, it'd be nice to hear a falseta going into compás then back into falseta, how well it's executed - maybe a minute worth of music is not so much is it?

edit: just checked the Chicuelo tab, the first 5 pages is up to falseta 2 looks nice - 5 pages should not be too much because most of it is based on the well known compás patterns...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2009 14:49:39

polishcomedy

Posts: 66
Joined: Feb. 7 2009

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jun. 15 2009 19:26:06

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2009 19:25:05

aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

it'd be nice to hear a falseta going into compás then back into falseta, how well it's executed - maybe a minute worth of music is not so much is it?

sounds good, the only thing that frightens me is that I havent heard the falsetas and how hard are they, but if there enough time it will be fine.

about the copyright: there propably is something... maybe by mail then. Anyway somehow we have to get the material to everybody eventually.

mrMagenta: the contribution is only 3$, about one can of beans

. It will be good for your diet and definetily its Good Karma. I dont think we need to make it mandatory, for my point of view everybodys invited for the challenge.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2009 23:19:27

Stu

Posts: 2526
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to aleksi)

Deniz, whats the deal with that media fire site? how do you download without an account?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2009 2:20:29

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

Ive sent everybody pms with tabs and mp3s. I hope everything works well with that? I will also provide 2 (slow and fast) Solo compas mp3s under the same link.
I just had a look.. if we choose the last 2 falsetas from PEpe we would include the "eye(or better ear)-catcher" one which is also in the beginning, and would also include a good ending, which involves compas playing. So on the tabs it would be page 8 as a start and in time about a bit less than 2 minutes of playing (in Pepe speed). What do you think? I think theres no need for an extra poll. Just write your preferences here, if you have any at all.

Oh and please consider the poll method above i mentioned. It has only advantages IMO.

Its cool that we are so many already! The announcement is just a few days old...

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2009 2:36:02

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

Stu, you press on the file, and then on Start Download or something. I just tried it without bein logged in to my account and it works for me. Let me know if somethings wrong.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2009 2:38:59

mrMagenta

Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

both Chicuelos and Habichuelas stuff look quite difficult, it will certainly be a challenge whichever falsetas we pick. I think one month practice for two minutes of this caliber might be a bit steep for me.

I prefer Habichuelas stuff. But we could also take one of habichuelas falsetas, a few compases in between and one of chicuelos? I really like habichuelas intro. that's a crazy arpeggio.

Chicuelo has some really nice compases between the falsetas.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2009 2:51:56

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to XXX)

Can i make a suggestion ? before you guys start on this..

Since we have an offer to have a cante accomp challenge and it will be solea por bulerias would you guys like to join that challenge ?

we should try take advantage of it now while the offer is there...we can continue with this or any other challenge after...none of us are going anywhere

u can even incorperate some of this falsetas in that if you like..u kill 2 birds with one rock...think about it...how many oportunities do we get to have a cante challenge and get some alone time with a singer ?

but if you guys prefer to do this thats cool too....I dont wanna step on anyones toes..but i also dont wanna lose that oportunity

I am sorry i know u guys planned this before that..and if it wasent cante i would have never started anything at the same time,...but since its difficult to get time to practice with a singer and one could always use any help they can get...that one cant wait...expecially since we dont know if 4 months from now the same possibilities arise..

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2009 2:52:12

peghead48

Posts: 36
Joined: Oct. 16 2008
From: Cheltenham

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to at_leo_87)

If its not too late can you count me in please

A Pepe Solea por buleria is one of my future projects, I am doing one of his FDH's at the moment

Thanks
Simon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2009 2:53:21

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1890
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Intermediate Challenge??? (in reply to Florian)

let's do both - this challenge is specifically for intermediate players willing to learn and play certain falsetas - accompanying cante is a different thing, normally less complex falsetas (if any), more compás playing, more intuition...and it'd be open for all levels, no?
i think we can do them both...btw Florian, it's an excellent idea to do the cante accompaniment challenge, i'll surely participate...

(we're drowning in challenges now, but it's much better than none :))

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2009 2:56:39