Challenge, Advanced Thread

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Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

Challenge, Advanced Thread

Advanced Challenge

DEADLINE REACHED! AWAITING THE AUDIO UPLOADS

The Challenge is la Ardila of Tomatito.

The Winner will be overwhelmed with terrific prices!!

A) He/She recives 3 Months Free account to Jason McGuire's http://www.flamenco-lessons.com/

B) AND a handmade traditional cejilla from Anders Eliason Guitars!! It will be a special one for the challenge!

C) (And gets most honor.)

2nd Place of this group recives 1 month Free account at http://www.flamenco-lessons.com/
(And gets a little less honor than the winner, but still more than the rest!)

Im completely amazed about this generousness!!!!

-----------

You will get The Tab when you send me your email via PM.

You can find The audio here:

------------

Practicing

If you want to practice at slower or higher speed, you can use the "weird metronome" for windows. Its for free and you can play any kind of compases with its help.

You find it here: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Others/Home-Education/Weird-Metronome.shtml

For alegrias type 112112121212 in the custom panel and select i.e. at no.1 Side Stick and at no.2 Bass Drum 1
You can use any speed you want. I use it since a while. Its a great tool!
-----------

Deadline is June 1st

All the entries to be emailed to Ailsa at least one day before deadline (you get her mail together with the Tab when joining. She will anonymize your audio rename it with a number and send all the audios to the judges).
All participants who already have the tab or learn the Algeria via watching the videos, please contact me via PM for Ailsas mail.
The Audio should be in Mp3 format normal settings 128kpbs/ 44100 Hz

A video would be extremely welcome beside of the audio. Or the audio from the video together with the audio. It will be very interesting and great fun to see the players themselves performing the piece. It could also used as proof if somebody tries to cheat with cut and paste the audio! ;.)

-----------

Rules
At first: The piece have to be played at once. No cut and paste is allowed! Its just allowed to engineer the sound a little bit if you have a cheap mic.
Professional sound-processing i.e. adding a bass or whatever, is not allowed.
Using a good mic is recommended becuase the sound-quality could affect the judges.

Because its an advanced challenge, there should be more freedom for personal interpretation. That means -->>
You are not forced to play each note as its played on the CD "Guitarra Gitana".
You can use the youtube video of Tomatito performing it as reference. But the participants have to play the introduction and the three falseta parts in the order of the original.
You can manipulate the falsetas in a minor manner but don't compose new falsetas and don't skip whole compasses.
All is allowed what Tomatito plays in the youtube-videos. <<--

Its not allowed to publish your audio or video by yourself before the deadline if you want to be a challenger. (Would be nicer not to know the level of the others before sending in)

The speed has to be 160 bpm or 170bpm like the CD record.
For the final record one of the two loops have to be used. In order to be fair, live palmas or any other kind of backing the playing is not allowed.

For the loops see down below!

----------

The loops for the final record down below/ uploaded again 070409

Choose one of them. For any questions ask me.

164bpm
http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=E4B3ABE611

172bpm
http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=E42A19A411

(I hope you get the data. It is free like rapidshare.)

-------------

The Participants

The challengers are:

Rain

Jonc - cancelled

Jim Opfer - cancelled

Edgar

marrow3

ToddK

xirdneH_imiJ

Güiro

Duende

Florian - cancelled

Ricardo

John O. - cancelled

Pimientito - cancelled

bursche - cancelled

Doitsujin

(It is a chance to work on our playing and get serious critics. Lets give our very best!)

----------

More capable judges who don't join?

official Judges

HemeolaMan
JasonMcGuire
Grisha
gj Michelob
takitaka
Deniz
Anders Eliason
RonM
Arash
cathulu

-----------

Lets take that chance to get better and having a lot of fun! So the progress of everyone is the basic idea and the most important aim of this thread.

As it´s written above. It´s our thread. Feel free to discuss whatever you like regarding the challenge..

Dont forget to send me a PM for the tab and for Ailsa´s email where you have to send the mp3 to!

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 13:15:20

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

See you in may or so...

I'm just doing Alegrías now, so this won't be that rewarding for me, because there are still other Palos I should intensify first, but what the heck...there is enough time to work relaxed.

Lets see what I can do

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 14:34:50

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

Should we reduce the time for practiceing? 1st May? I agree...3 month is pretty long.. But ..ok

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 14:47:27

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

judging should be done to anonymus audios meaning the people who score dont know who they are scoring...once we came up with this way of doing it its imposible to ignore the absolute fairnes it guarantees...

also its good to know who and how many are judging before the challenge...and how they are voting ?

and i suggest either pick video or audio ..otherwise they arent equal..its more impressive to watch the fingers , so those using videos will have an advantage so we either all do it in video or none...also using videos makes the scoring on anonymus audios impossible

perhaps winner can upload a video after he wins within a day

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:07:20

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Florian)

Primos,

Do you need someone to be the recipient of the mp3s and anonymise them for judging? A bit like gjMichelob is doing for the beginner challenge? If you do I can do that for you and distribute them to the judges etc.

Just an offer to help, no problem if you want to handle a different way.

A

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:12:37

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Ailsa)

there you go Doit

problem solved

thanks Ailsa

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:16:21

Ricardo

Posts: 15163
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

Ok, gonna try it. I am not set up to record good audio, maybe I can record a video, and extract the audio, and release the video public AFTER the challenge?

Branquito was damn good already! He should judge not me!

I think the original was way faster than 160, but I think 160 is a fair speed...

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:21:36

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

Dude, you just hi-jacked the beginner and the intermediate challenge! Talk about stealing our thunder! LOL!

I don't care actually, but some might!

PS I would like to judge this one! OK, I may not be the best on technique judging, or if it is in tune

, Bwahahahah, but if it sounds good I will know it...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:24:07

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

Ok Ailsa! Thats nice of you. Please anonymise the audio for us. How do we do that? You give me your email and I will send it together with the tab to the participants?

quote:

also its good to know who and how many are judging before the challenge...and how they are voting ?

The voting should be as in the other challenges.

When its anonym, I will also judge. Im shure you Florian will judge as well, as Ricardo. I hope more people will help us with their opinions.

quote:

and i suggest either pick video or audio ..otherwise they arent equal..its more impressive to watch the fingers , so those using videos will have an advantage so we either all do it in video or none...also using videos makes the scoring on anonymus audios impossible

Lets pick the audio, because not everybody has a camera. I also dont like judging anyone by checking how the hands move because i.e. large movements dont allways lead to slowlyness. So it´s not really important how the movements look like. But I would want to see the videos after votion of the audios for fun. (And as I said, to have the proof,... its no cheated audio-cutandpaste-editing job..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:25:00

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Ok, gonna try it. I am not set up to record good audio, maybe I can record a video, and extract the audio, and release the video public AFTER the challenge?

jeez .....remind me to never tell you any state secrets lol...youre good at this beeing anonymus thing arent you

so if i hear low audio quality video sound played good its... you

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:26:30

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
maybe I can record a video, and extract the audio, and release the video public AFTER the challenge?

That's a great suggestion - it would be nice to see the video, but to maintain anonymity the judging should be on sound only. I think there is free software you can download to extract sound.

If people like Ricardo are taking part, who is judging?

EDIT: yes I see now, because it is anonymous you can all judge!! I get it!

OK, Doit I will give you my email, and you can give that with the tab to anyone who is interested. Glad to be able to help you guys in a small way

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http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:28:36

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Florian)

quote:

When its anonym, I will also judge. Im shure you Florian will judge as well, as Ricardo. I hope more people will help us with their opinions.

i am beeing disagreable today lol sorry...but honestly i dont see how we are going to judge and take part, and be fair, and give high scores to those we wanna beat..

and then what ...the ones we dont score everyone knows its ours ? or we judge ours too ? i allready got my score now for mine

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:29:33

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Florian)

quote:

i allready got my score now for mine

oh yeah, see your point

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http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:31:39

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Florian)

quote:

If people like Ricardo are taking part, who is judging?

and there is the biggest challenge of Doits challenge

u need to come up with something fair, informed, and organised ...good luck with that

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:33:11

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Ok, gonna try it. I am not set up to record good audio, maybe I can record a video, and extract the audio, and release the video public AFTER the challenge?

Thats fine, I´ll do as well. :.D

quote:

Dude, you just hi-jacked the beginner and the intermediate challenge! Talk about stealing our thunder! LOL!

I don't care actually, but some might!

Well, I thought Florian did a great job and I wanted to do it like him because it works! Yes I copied some sentences 1:1

quote:

Original: cathulu
PS I would like to judge this one! OK, I may not be the best on technique judging, or if it is in tune , Bwahahahah, but if it sounds good I will know it...

Ok, I sign you up as judge! Thank you!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:33:18

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Ailsa)

by the way I want you all to know that in between making posts on this thread I am actually practising the beginner challenge

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http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:34:55

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Dude, you just hi-jacked the beginner and the intermediate challenge! Talk about stealing our thunder! LOL!

I don't care actually, but some might!

I was thinking about that...when it comes to judging our attention will be back on the beginner and intermediate...but atm since they should be busy practicing anyway...i am sure they wont mind if everyone has fun at the same time..

theres a challenge happening now around everyones level..

but dont worry when the time comes our attention will be on the right places..

i forghot the deadlines i set

for those challenges to end...just incase can someone remind me a week before the intermediate challenge is set to end so that i can remind the judges..

quote:

Well, I thought Florian did a great job and I wanted to do it like him because it works! Yes I copied some sentences 1:1

Why thank you sir i am flaterred

Also Doit you forghot to mention the best prize..
Jason McGuire kindly ofered to sponser this challenge also

SO winner gets 3 Months free membership at flamenco lessons

and second place gets 1 Month

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:38:54

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

i am beeing disagreable today lol sorry...but honestly i dont see how we are going to judge and take part, and be fair, and give high scores to those we wanna beat..

Well,.. I think Im a fair person and dont judge my own playing... But, if others wont think ike that.. hmm.. Than I hope JasonMcGuire could help us out. ToddK you would be an excellent judge IMO. Or do you want to join? If Grisha occurs here from time to time... I hope he sees this threat and helps us out with god judging...
Well,. but I think when its anonym and we have many judges, than it wont change the stats significantly if some people vote for tehmselfes..no?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:50:10

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Well,.. I think Im a fair person and dont judge my own playing

oh yeah i forghot me neither

make a list of your ideal judges and contact them via pm...even if they dont come here they will get an email notification...that way you will know either way...u not leaving anything up to chance

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:53:58

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Also Doit you forghot to mention the best prize..
Jason McGuire kindly ofered to sponser this challenge also

SO winner gets 3 Months free membership at flamenco lessons

and second place gets 1 Month

Now I´m flattered.

I´ll update the post!
Im out of my apartment for some hours, I will goon facing any problems a little later!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 15:58:56

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

Great stuff Doit

about the judging...i still dont know its the best idea to have challengers score..its a conflict of interest...even if conciously we all would like to think we are fair

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 16:09:20

Matic

Posts: 603
Joined: Jul. 3 2006
From: Slovenija

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

I hope he sees this threat and helps us out with god judging...

Btw, good spirit guys! It will be nice to hear you all.
Judges should not compete imo. I think Ron, Anders and Todd won't be going for it, so they make great judges. And Jason, Grisha, Jim Opfer... I'll talk to branquito if he's gonna compete...

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vengo de los san migueles
si no me caso este año que yo
me caso el año que viene

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 16:26:26

Ricardo

Posts: 15163
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

quote:

Ok, gonna try it. I am not set up to record good audio, maybe I can record a video, and extract the audio, and release the video public AFTER the challenge?

jeez .....remind me to never tell you any state secrets lol...youre good at this beeing anonymus thing arent you

so if i hear low audio quality video sound played good its... you

Well I think the camera mic is very clear...but you are right, I will record in a different room and get the dog and kid to remain quiet!

quote:

quote:

If people like Ricardo are taking part, who is judging?

and there is the biggest challenge of Doits challenge

u need to come up with something fair, informed, and organised ...good luck with that

See that is why I thought that chick Doit liked would be perfect. But as he said, the husband could get upset at him....

Seriously anyone can judge IMO.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 21:05:11

Güiro

Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 22 2008
From: Colorado

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

Count me in.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 22:32:30

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Güiro)

Welcome Guiro! So now we have 9 confirmed:

Guiro
Florian
Ricardo
John O.
Pimientito
bursche
Doitsujin
Duende
xirdneH_imiJ

We also have question marks by:
branquito ?
Anders ?
Are you guys up for this?

Judges: you know it probably would be best if competitors didn't score others. If you all decide otherwise fine, but perhaps it just makes it difficult to prove everything is fair? Any of the guys in the question mark list could be judges if they decide not to participate. Also:

ToddK - he will be a tough judge, but I think will be fair
cathulu
Ron
Arash

I could contact Jason and Grisha and ask if they would have time?

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http://www.myspace.com/flamencojourney

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2009 0:39:39

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

I can can give La Ardilla a try, not shure i can do the whole piece but its a good way to kick myself in another direction than the usual Pdl stuff..

so ok im in.

_____________________________

This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2009 1:12:24

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1935
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Ailsa)

i'll give it a try, although i don't qualify as "advanced"...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2009 2:48:53

xirdneH_imiJ

Posts: 1935
Joined: Dec. 2 2006

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 14 2009 2:55:20

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2009 2:55:03

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

See that is why I thought that chick Doit liked would be perfect. But as he said, the husband could get upset at him....

lol !

I checked my loops which I downloaded from the foro in past. The fastest alegria loop I have is 150bpm. Its too slow for this alegrias. 160 bpm is a good fitting leisure speed.. so, could somebody provide a loop we can use?

Im thinking about to say, that all players should play with the same loop-backing, because of fairness. Not all have good palmeros in the neighbourhood. And I remember an alegrias of ToddK. He backed his alegrias with a whole orchestra... I would say, that is not allowed. It makes a lot different how good the percussion is...

If you don't have a loop so far, you can use the "weird metronome" for windows. Its for free and you can play any kind of compases with its help.

You find it here: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Others/Home-Education/Weird-Metronome.shtml

For alegrias type 112112121212 in the custom panel and select i.e. at no.1 Side Stick and at no.2 Bass Drum 1
You can use any speed you want. I use it since a while. Its a great tool!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2009 3:06:15

Arash

Posts: 4504
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Challenge, Advanced Thread (in reply to Doitsujin)

I am not an advanced player by far. And also i started to learn 3 very hard pieces which are already way over my abilities and dont want to add another one.

Oh, and another reason is, i am already a member in Jasons club! So there is no motivation for me LOL (just kidding!)

But i could be a good Judge. I have very good ears and i hear nuances very good.
So, if you want, i can be one of the judges.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2009 3:24:45