RE: Conde Questions

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RE: Conde Questions

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Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

The bridge looks correct. Here is the head. Those machines are normally black I think. Its for sale in Valencia and is too cheap really (under 2500) which makes me wonder if its fake or stolen.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 2:08:19

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

Ah but is it a fake Sanchis with a Conde label?

Man, this story is getting really involved...enough for Jason Webster or that other guy to write a detective novel maybe?

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 2:42:58

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

Here is the label. The signature looks OK but there is no model number written on the label. I hae noticed that Felipe V and Atocha write the model number inside but Gravina leave it blank.

Not always. I had a good A26 from Felipe V with no model number on the label.
From the picture of the label you posted, I'd say it looks squint and that's a bit odd. Makes me think it could have been pasted in through the sound hole but then again, may be that's how it's always done?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 4:34:30

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to Pimientito)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 5:15:15

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

Are you sure that the signature looks "ok"?

I am no expert but a grapholog would say that these 3 signatures are from 3 different handwritings.
So at least one of them must be fake if we have only 2 Conde brothers.

Just look at the "d" in the first picture.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 6:01:45

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

May I ask how you knew it was fake? Was it the label or instrument that gave it away?

I have been offered yet another guitar but this time it seems too cheap to be true. I checked out the conde web site for pricings and was a bit concerned to see this warning.

This looks like a Conde from the Gravina shop (no guarantees!). The signature is that of Faustino's widow Julia. Gravina guitars don't have the model number on them. I don't think it should be described as an A25 as that is the model number used by the Felipe V people.

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 6:27:37

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Guest)

quote:

What is the difference between a "fake" Conde and an "authentic" Conde?? We know the Conde bros are not making them so the distinction is lost on me.

You are right - but the bros make money out them. There is a second level where they don't make money. I think this is a fake label.
Rob

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 6:47:57

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Guest)

quote:

What is the difference between a "fake" Conde and an "authentic" Conde?? We know the Conde bros are not making them so the distinction is lost on me.

Ha ha

I asked myself exactly the same question. To answer you nealf I am after the guitar, not the label...I'm just trying to not get ripped off in the process. I would like to know that if I am buying a Conde (however you define it) that it is a guitar that has at least been through the workshop.
Sure you can all say "well if the guitar is good it shouldnt matter" and to a degree thats true but when you are talking about several thousand euros there is a certain investment aspect to the purchase as well.
If Conde are actively putting a warning on their website about fake guitars that is something else to consider.

Thanks RobJe for the example of the fake label. Its not very convincing and the signature in particular is terrible. When I called it an A25 I thought that referred to the palo santo media luna regardless of the label. The Conde catalogue lists that model as A25. There is a palo santo flamenco without a media luna headstock but that is not catagorised as a professional guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 7:18:12

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

The Conde catalogue lists that model as A25. There is a palo santo flamenco without a media luna headstock but that is not catagorised as a professional guitar.

Which catalogue? Don't forget the Gravina and Felipe shops are separate businesses. They don't even love each other!
Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 7:45:26

Guest

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

Hola Pimientito

You live in Granada and are literally surrounded by guitarreros, some of them are very good: I quite like the younger Bellido. But even outside of Granada you can buy an authentic guitar from Romero, Maldonado, Pedro y Miguel etc.

Must it be a Conde?

Suerte

Sean

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 8:05:35

DonS

Posts: 232
Joined: Mar. 1 2007
From: Florida and San Francisco Cali

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Guest)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sean

Hola Pimientito

You live in Granada and are literally surrounded by guitarreros, some of them are very good: I quite like the younger Bellido. But even outside of Granada you can buy an authentic guitar from Romero, Maldonado, Pedro y Miguel etc.

Must it be a Conde?

Suerte

Sean

I agree...Pimeintito you're in España amigo! I really liked Jose Romero's guitars when I was in Madrid. His guitars are nice and you know he is making them himself..his taller was full of wood shavings and he was the only one there. Out of all the Condes you are looking at I think I'll pull the trigger on the nicely priced Atocha that used to belong to Viejin. There is a reason why he picked that guitar (I hope

) That negra Gravina looks legit as I used to have a Gravina Conde blanca with the same rosette and and label but then again, anyone can buy that rosette and print out a Conde label. The headstock looks a little different but overall looks pretty legitimate. I love how Conde guitar labels are never on straight LOL!

I say buy one and put a video recording together so we get to hear el sonido!

below is my ex Conde Gravina - same rosette and label but 10 years older:

Saludos - Don

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 9:01:15

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Ron.M)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 10:44:56

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Ron.M)

That's it, Ron - Hermanas Canton. They mixed up the spelling on the label.

.............................................................................................................................

Marcos: What Sean said.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 11:08:48

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Estevan)

Estevan,

BTW Those are the "primeras".

The "segundas" factory is down the street a bit....

(The Student models, they just buy in and stick their own label on them.)

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 11:58:44

prd1

Posts: 206
Joined: Jul. 11 2007

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

Hi Pimientito,

I'm certainly no expert on such matters - but that head design looks rather 'squashed' compaired tp the A26 I bought from the Filipe V shop in 2006.

In hindsight I wish I'd gone with my heart and ordered a guitar from the Romero shop in Sol - it's the first guitar I've ever believed has wanted to play itself - it had an energy? At the time I went for Conde due to resale value - probably a mistake as players are now realisng that other makers are building better guitars for a fraction of the price!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 14:27:19

Posts: 320
Joined: Nov. 20 2005
From: manitoba, canada

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to prd1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 17:52:56

Posts: 320
Joined: Nov. 20 2005
From: manitoba, canada

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to c)

Hey Queeksdraw......

How come my Romero doesnt play its self?

Babalouis

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 4 2009 18:12:03

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

Hola Pimientito

You live in Granada and are literally surrounded by guitarreros, some of them are very good: I quite like the younger Bellido. But even outside of Granada you can buy an authentic guitar from Romero, Maldonado, Pedro y Miguel etc.

Must it be a Conde?

Suerte

Sean

Sean, I asked the same on page one...

Btw. Condes do not have a better resale value. At least not here in Spain. Its quite the opposite. They are amongst the guitars loosing value the most. I think what Pimiento has written clearly shows this as well. Lot of sellers. Conde is right now a buyers market.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2009 0:50:15

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Guest)

quote:

You live in Granada and are literally surrounded by guitarreros, some of them are very good: I quite like the younger Bellido. But even outside of Granada you can buy an authentic guitar from Romero, Maldonado, Pedro y Miguel etc.

Must it be a Conde?

To answer both you and Anders...I dont really need another concert guitar right now and I have a beautiful Granada guitar by Francisco Manual Diaz.
I also have a midi Alhambra, a Conde A28, a Sanchis and a couple of good Bernals. I have been buying and selling guitars over the years. I had a Rafael Moreno, a Maldonado, a Santos Hernandez, a Ramirez, an Aguilate, a Japanese Kohno and I have played Bellido, Marin and Juan Miguel Carmona so its not like i have never tried alternantives.

The thing is I have never had an A26 Conde because they have been too expensive and way overpriced in my opinion. As Anders says its a buyers market now and I have the opportunity to take advantage of the economic climate and get one at a reasonable price. If its a good guitar I can always move it on edventually and it will never be worth less than what i pay for it right now. Its just that it would be nice to try one for a while while I have the opportunity.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 5 2009 1:15:38

elkabong!

Posts: 51
Joined: Mar. 31 2006

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to c)

Geeez ! I dunno BaBa ? but don't you worry about it too much.

I'LL DO ALL THE THINNIN' AROUND HERE ! & DON'T YOU FOR-GIT IT !!!

KABONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2009 4:12:44

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

This one's new to me.
http://www.guitarcentre.com.au/Conde26.jpg

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2009 17:40:27

Jerzy

Posts: 35
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: Mexico City

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pimientito

The vendor had some more Condes though and I learned a thing or 2. He said that Faustino built his last guitar around 88/89 so pretty much every Conde since then has been built by someone else. But surely you dont mean the 16,000 Felipe V models too? I asked. Now I know why Sean was very reluctant to post exactly who is making what. I tried a Felipe V for the first time today. What do you get for your extra 8000 euros? Well you get a beautiful guitar with a beautiful label and a slightly different headstock that IS NOT made by Sanchiz. Could it be that the Luthier is not even from Spain? Does it sound and play better than a top A26? Does it play 8000 euros better? Everyone is entitiled to their opinion but mine was that I would rather buy 4 fantastic guitars for that money.

So the second A26 was a well used Atocha Amarillo. Its got heavy signs of playing on the back and top. Bargain price of under 2500 euros. What to do? The price of the "Viejin" Atocha has been dropped too so its even more tempting to go for that one. Saying that Emilio Maya suggested last night that we could drive to Valencia and buy the equivalent of an A26 direct from Sanchiz for around 1550 euros. Thats quite a tempting idea too.

Hi there, just to elabrate a bit more on the last guitar built by Faustino, here are this pictures of my guitar

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¡¡¡Un Abrazo!!!
Jerzy
http://www.youtube.com/jerzyskoryna

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2009 17:45:54

Jerzy

Posts: 35
Joined: Jul. 13 2003

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2009 17:47:30

Jerzy

Posts: 35
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: Mexico City

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

Here is the label, notice the year. One thing interesting about this guitar is that the bridge aparently is made of ivory, instead of bone...

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¡¡¡Un Abrazo!!!
Jerzy
http://www.youtube.com/jerzyskoryna

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2009 17:50:15

Jerzy

Posts: 35
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: Mexico City

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

Here is the front of the guitar

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¡¡¡Un Abrazo!!!
Jerzy
http://www.youtube.com/jerzyskoryna

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2009 17:51:33

Jerzy

Posts: 35
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: Mexico City

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

here is the rosete
Best regards to all!!

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¡¡¡Un Abrazo!!!
Jerzy
http://www.youtube.com/jerzyskoryna

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2009 18:08:18

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

Jerzy,

My god man, I thought you died and went to heaven!

Good to see you are still alive and well.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 7 2009 21:39:48

Jerzy

Posts: 35
Joined: Jul. 13 2003
From: Mexico City

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Patrick)

Hi Patrick!! nice to hear from you again, well, you see, things get too busy and have not had enough time fro posting and follow all the buzz around, but from time to time I just spend a little time reading post's and this one is a very good one.
Hope you are doing well my friend!!!
Cheers!!

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¡¡¡Un Abrazo!!!
Jerzy
http://www.youtube.com/jerzyskoryna

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 8 2009 9:31:30

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

Its been 6 weeks of looking at guitars. Also Arashes April fool joke really kicked me into making a decision about whether I really wanted to go for this or not. I decided that it would be better to sell my A28 and have the better model instead.
To round up the story I finally sold a Bernal that I didnt really use and borrowed some cash and went for the original orange "viejin" A26. The seller finally agreed to go below 3000 euros so I am very happy. Here she is in pride of place next to paco de lucia. I am just looking at it today every time I go into the room like a kid with a new christmas present.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2009 5:08:24

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Conde Questions (in reply to Pimientito)

pimientito,

im glad the photo i took of you and manolo has pride of place on the wall.(next to the conde that is)

hope to see you in sanlucar as well this summer.
i've just got the one of me, john.O and manolo a frame and placed on the wall at home a couple of weeks back.

the conde looks a beauty. upload a clip soon.

ps is that a real painting or fascimile of paco on the wall, it looks pretty cool.

best

henry

henry

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 21 2009 10:22:11