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La Barossa out of tune?   You are logged in as Guest
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Arash

Posts: 4416
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

La Barossa out of tune? 

This Video really astonished and puzzled me.

I mean it is obvious that this boy has a good technique (just check the picado parts!).
But something is wrong. I think the Guitar is totally out of tune or something, and if so, i wonder how such a good player doesnt notice that!! Or is something else wrong here ? Is he playing wrong ? It just doesnt figure. I am baffled.

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/flamenco/video/x17uxs_flamenco-la-barossa-alegria_music

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 5 2009 15:48:21
 
cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

Well the guitar didn't sound all that out of tune to me... certain sections sounded ok but I am told I have a tin ear. A couple of duff notes on the low e string, I think that low e string got a bit out of tune though. He exerts a lot of pressure on that string which maybe the capo grabbed. As an aside his posture looks tough on the back.

If it was really out of tune those guys should have been wincing.

Having said all that I have got to admit certain parts sounded a bit weird also, almost like that Paco De Lucia duff version done as a parody - almost like he was off a fret sometimes - or is that jazzy influence.

I would love to know what is up with that video.

It is funny though, if you are not sure if it is out of tune then what does that say?? Or if I say it is mainly in tune but it turns out it isn't then what does that say about me!! I do sometimes play a bit out of tune and don't bother to tune up for practice I must admit...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 5 2009 18:08:54

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

The guitar is totally out of tune. It almost sounds like an alternate tuning.

Plus, he's just not playing the tune correctly at all.

Kudos to him for trying it though. I certainly wouldnt touch it. :)

Its the greatest solo guitar alegrias ever written imho.

TK

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 5 2009 19:22:53
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

poor guy! look at the tension in his picado! that must be painful after a few hours. well done, maybe some tuning, a little slower, he'd probably nail it

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 5 2009 21:34:27
 
Stu

Posts: 1926
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

strange!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 0:24:22
 
Jan Willem

 

Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 21 2007
From: Belgium Halle

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

quote:

poor guy


:-) I know what you mean, but I wouldn't call him "poor guy" hence his playing. It is far from perfect but what did you expect from a highly advanced piece like La barossa.

Who here on the foro would dare playing THAT piece in public?


JW
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 0:25:12
 
MarcChrys

 

Posts: 121
Joined: Jan. 11 2009
From: England (West Yorkshire/Lancashire)

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

If it were my guitar, I'd have spent a while tuning it slightly! That said, still a brave and skilled attempt.

PS On YouTube there's a video of an 80 year-old Manitas de Plata playing hideously out of tune :(
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 1:17:25
 
Jan Willem

 

Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 21 2007
From: Belgium Halle

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

quote:

Manitas de Plata


Who?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 1:24:49
 
MarcChrys

 

Posts: 121
Joined: Jan. 11 2009
From: England (West Yorkshire/Lancashire)

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Jan Willem

Now that's nasty! :) The man's a legend - when I was a young boy, he was THE flamenco guitarist (surrounded by the likes of Picasso and Brigitte Bardot). I've still got an LP (yes one of those black circles of 12" plastic) called 'Hommages'.

But check out this at 1.45 onwards

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 1:27:52
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Jan Willem

i
quote:

Who here on the foro would dare playing THAT piece in public?


I've met a lot of players who reckon "La barrosa " is the hardest piece to perform live. I' ve met a few players who can sort of play it..but not to a level where they want to go on stage with it. I tried learning it once and found it a waste of time. I wouldnt dream of ever performing that piece.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 2:35:37
 
Jan Willem

 

Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 21 2007
 

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Feb. 6 2009 5:26:33
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 5:25:20
 
Arash

Posts: 4416
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

Still, very strange.
It just doesnt fit.

Its not about playing slower or that La Barossa is too difficult for him Hemeloaman and Jan.

This is like having a Ferrari in a car racing, but INTENTIONALLY drive slow to loose. Kind of masochistic.

The point is: watching his hands (specially his right hand), i think he CAN play this Piece (not totally perfect but 80%,
90%). Why doesnt he tune the guitar and play correctly?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 6:30:46
 
bursche

Posts: 1181
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

I love the man saying "ole" in the end.
Repeat it some times and it is hilarious!

However, the playing is totally confusing.
He definitely has the swing and it seems quite relaxed somehow, but it sounds really AWFUL.
Total contradiction when looking at it.

I think this guy must have played for years and masters more simple pieces with great sense of compás, whilst he just plays over all the mistakes here to hold the rhythm.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 7:39:13
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to bursche

It sort of sounds like the effect you get when you file the action down way too low so that the string doesn't sit right on the fret?

It also "sounds" like he's using low tension strings tuned down a couple of semitones, (but the pitch seems to be OK for the capo position).... I dunno!


Good technique though!

cheers,

Ron

Edit: I definitely think it's something to do with the string tension, like he's using some sort of ultra low tension strings, sort of like using a tuned down A string for the E, a tuned down D for the A, a wound G tuned down for the D, B for G, E for B and some sort of very thin top E string.

That bottom E cetainly bends a lot when he's resting his thumb during the picado, like it's really slack.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 7:58:55
 
bursche

Posts: 1181
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Ron.M

You'll laugh, but I once tried to learn this piece while i was absolutely not capable of it.

Guess what... I bent the 6th string like hell. It happens if you're fighting too hard I think.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 9:14:58
 
itoprover

Posts: 339
Joined: Jan. 3 2006
From: Ottawa, ON

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

I think it is a bad combination of very low action and low tension. His technique seems ok to me but the piece is far beyond his abilities.
I enjoyed this from the same website :
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5sev4_fahem-flamenco-jazz-kabyle_webcam

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Ilia
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 9:23:18
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to itoprover

quote:

but the piece is far beyond his abilities.


I tend to have a dual personality with these things...

Like, if I paid good money for a ticket to a concert in which he was billed as some sort of amazing guitarist, then of course I'd be pretty annoyed.

But if a young chap like that had to play in front of me in a bar or something, just for fun....then I'd find it really delightful and great.

There is a time for hearing the general "gist" of the thing and the afición the player has for Flamenco, rather than being "concert hall critical" IMO.

Same as a lot of conversations that go on here.

Some folk make an effort to understand what the poster is meaning and others sift through the wording to find something they can disagree on or protest about.

I think we all have this "dual personality" thing.

Anyway, I'm damned sure he has some kind of "slack strings" thing going on there!!

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 10:25:20
 
Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

Jeeez! That was a mystery. Might be he couldn't hear himself although I don't know why, it seemed a small enough gathering. Really well played but tone deaf. Must be quite an old video because Segovia is sitting there on the extreme left hand side
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 10:44:10
 
itoprover

Posts: 339
Joined: Jan. 3 2006
From: Ottawa, ON

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

Ron, my English is not too good and I am not sure if you are saying that I am being overcritical. I just think that this piece is too much for the player of this caliber. For me the fact that he is trying to play this piece knowing that it is being recorded is the same as be billed as some sort of amazing guitarist. La Barossa is truly virtuoso piece and so far I have not heard a single good interpretation of it. It is like pole vaulting - Paco have put the bar very high with this piece and this performance is a try well below this bar. I respect the try though - just don't understand the purpose of trying - just to show how high the bar is? This guy's technique is very good IMO and there are tens of Paco tunes that are easier and would sound better when he is playing than this alegria.

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Ilia
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 13:00:44
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to itoprover

quote:

Ron, my English is not too good and I am not sure if you are saying that I am being overcritical


No, no man!

This is what a few folk were saying too.

I was just saying that "I" would or would not have that opinion depending on the circumstances I heard it played!

Are you not an English first language speaker?
I always thought you were from your posts!

Geez...I feel totally ashamed by seeing how all you guys speak so easily in English!

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 13:11:32
 
itoprover

Posts: 339
Joined: Jan. 3 2006
From: Ottawa, ON

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
Are you not an English first language speaker?
I always thought you were from your posts!


My first language is Russian, but I've been living in Canada for 8 years now so
I had to learn English here. I am pretty fluent now but sometimes it is still hard
for me to summarize someone's statement :)

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Ilia
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 14:41:57
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

Okay, give this guy some credit. "La barossa" is ridiculously hard, trust me. Every time I attempt to play it the piece just dies on me.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 14:56:15
 
Arash

Posts: 4416
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

I think most people here just dont understand what i am trying to say (maybe because my english is also not so good).

I try again.

I am saying this guy IS CAPABLE of playing this piece (just check the picado at 0:30 for instance).
I am saying that this guy IS GOOD......if his technique would not have been good, i wouldnt have been astonished and wouldnt have even posted this Vid.

It is the discrepancy between his very good technical abilities and skills - VS - how the piece is been played which made me puzzled. Thats all!

I still claim that he can play this piece much better, even with his current skills.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 15:14:26
 
cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to bursche

So are you saying you are capable of it now? Love to hear it - go for it...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 16:00:33
 
itoprover

Posts: 339
Joined: Jan. 3 2006
From: Ottawa, ON

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Grisha

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grisha

Okay, give this guy some credit. "La barossa" is ridiculously hard, trust me. Every time I attempt to play it the piece just dies on me.


Grisha,

This is exactly what I am trying to say! Perhaps this is why we have not seen your interpretation yet even though your skill is way much closer to the level of this piece.

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Ilia
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 16:05:29
 
Conrad

Posts: 533
Joined: Jul. 16 2003
From: Toronto, ON, Canada

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to itoprover

Hahaha, Grisha... ever modest, what a guy! But he positively feels this piece to the core and plays it with utter grace. I've been very fortunate to hear it in person. And there exists an amateur recording of him playing it, too. G-spot, how ya doin'??! It seems that the link on your site don't work any more, so you may not be wanting to share the mp3 and I don't want to commandeer your rights by uploading it myself (there are a couple of hiccups in the performance but it's otherwise perfect).

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 17:26:58
 
itoprover

Posts: 339
Joined: Jan. 3 2006
From: Ottawa, ON

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Conrad

He-he Conrad, in my post I was actually trying to provoke Grisha to record at least some excerpt from this piece :)) but if it is already exists.. Grish, please please allow Conrad to share this recording with us so we all can shut up and finally go practice.. it would be also nice to know that this piece can be played by a human being not a monster. you are too close to the monster level though. lol :)

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Ilia
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 18:32:43
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1257
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to Arash

As far as my recordings go, Conrad has my permission to post whatever he wants whenever he wants. He's a good friend and I trust him.

I am up and down, up and down (more down lately)... How about you, Conrad?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 18:55:55
 
Conrad

Posts: 533
Joined: Jul. 16 2003
From: Toronto, ON, Canada

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to itoprover

Cool... done:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=100869&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

Some may have heard it already, especially if you're like me and you downloaded it and kept it along time ago because your heart fluttered the first moment you heard him. And it still does...

Grisha... PM'ed you...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2009 19:57:15
 
Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: La Barossa out of tune? (in reply to MarcChrys

quote:

If it were my guitar, I'd have spent a while tuning it slightly


In his defence, can I ask how many of you have tried to keep a nylon strung guitar in tune under the lights of a TV studio? They are much brighter and hotter than stage lights and it is very difficult to stay in tune. It sounds more in tune at the beginning than at the end of the piece. The guy was very young and made a very brave attempt to perform a piece that most of us will never get to play.

quote:

Okay, give this guy some credit. "La barossa" is ridiculously hard, trust me.


Thanks Grisha. I was going to post that even you would find "La barrosa" a challenge to perform and even if you did, it would be hard to get Pacos aire.

I just listened to your recording.....MADRE MIA!!!!! I take it back. You pull it off much better than i imagined. Can I ask you how long it took for you to memorise and get up to that level? Also is this a piece in your repertoire or just one that you learned to see if was do-able? How would you rate that piece in difficulty to perform compared to say Nuñez siguirilla?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 7 2009 0:51:13
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