RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
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- - - RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=99519



Message

Ricardo -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 19:01:18)

quote:

A poll wouldnt be good, because some funny people would definetely vote for the obvious worst one...



[:D][:D]

I am willing to "judge" I guess. I would like to make it clear at this time that I DO accept "bribes".[;)][:D]



Exitao -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 19:03:10)

Well, my original suggestion was that people PM the "judges" (i.e. tally counters), you can bulk PM. But this way, you can vote/score without fear of offending.

Then, say 3 judges, independently tally the scores, and post the finally tallied scores of each person. More than one tally-person to ensure honesty.

Hey, I'm just spitballing. I'll be too busy posting on forums to get involved...[&:]



Florian -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 19:03:54)

Yay!! thats 6 confirmed...greate ...at this rate will be on the challenge by tonight



Florian -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 19:06:13)

quote:

Hey, I'm just spitballing. I'll be too busy posting on forums to get involved...



are you serious ? cmon dont be like that..u here everyday lol get involved..

judge or take challenge...please ! damn you[:D] be a good sport..dont ruin this for me [:@][;)]



Ok so we moving along nicely now...for the sake of moving on i will ignore anymore changes to the system or next week we will still be here..( i am sorry [&:])

The 2 Challenges are locked in..Beginners and Intermediate

The way we vote is now locked in ..those compeating will not vote.
We will use a panel of judges voting openly on anonymus audios
Some of us have made our nominations for members we want in this panel..
Anyone can do the same..or vote themselfs in...everyone will be considered
We have 6 so far a dream number would be around 15..


The Criteria is locked in
each audio will be judged on 3 things..out of a maximum of 10 for each individual criteria.

Compas/Timing
Technique/Execution
Aire/Phrasing/Swing


Absoluteley anyone can take the challenge...many have expresed theyr interest to do so, we want more ..so please dont be shy..it motivates and helps us along if you say it out loud that you are in rather then just waiting until you get the tab to see if you are in..


All we need now to get this thing started in a few hours is more Judges, either members that have been nominated or members who wish to be involved...noone will bee seein as vain for nominating themself...we want it.


And a few more challengers...and specifie where you are compeating please

If we dont take anymore different directions (wich is what i am hoping to avoid) we really are just a few hours before we can get this started and organise the final details...dates, minimum requirements etc..



cathulu -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 19:16:48)

Exitao will be in or I will go down to his house and kick his door in! He needs an excuse to practice. Otherwise he better be looking for a job!!! [:D]

So, how many beginners and intermediates do we got? Flo, can we start an individual new topic for beginner and a new topic for intermediates with the piece to learn with tab as the first upload? Then we can sign-up and raise any questions we might have about the piece in the appropriate topic? I leave it to you to do what's best...



Florian -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 19:26:55)

quote:

Flo, can we start an individual new topic for beginner and a new topic for intermediates with the piece to learn with tab as the first upload?


sure buddy u can do whatever you like..infact its a good idea..beginners expecially can help eachother trough it and compare notes, ask questions...etc.


Once we have our judges and contestants i will make an Official Challenge thread with the details, dates, specifications, tab, loops if u want it..
but u can open other practice threads do whatever you like..

..So far Judges locked in are:
Ron
NormanKliman
Pimientito
Ricardo
Florian
Todkk needs to decide if he wants to judge or compete....
waiting on about 8 more judges

Michelob is the trusted neutural party, the secret keeper you will email you Audio to when you finish and he will upload here under no member name..just reference number..so that the judges are not unintentionally influenced in any way by personal feelings towards the member..

SO far members locked in to the challenge in 2 different classes are:

at_leo_87
cathulu
srshea
Ailsa
Deniz
val
superboo
Doitsujin
Francisco
Exitao
El Camino
Matic

THIS are the challenges you will be judged on Intermediate and Beginner

we want about 10 more atleast ( and we'l get em)...feel free to email the guys you correspond with or pm members here and invite them to take part..incase they arent aware of this...i will do the same..

this will be a fair, fun and tough challenge...the judging will be 100% neutural..the music pieces are fun, and practical for your future repertoir..and you will be motivated and practice very hard as a result of this



we are in good shape...I am getting Excited now [:D]



Francisco -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 20:23:08)

Oh shiz! I just heard the beginner challenge! I better get started. [:)]



Florian -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 20:25:48)

quote:

Oh shiz! I just heard the beginner challenge! I better get started.


[:D][:D][:D]


OLEEEEEEE[;)]

why do you think its so quiet around here ? lol everyone is cheatting [:)]

Deniz is pretending to ask questions just to slow us down cause he has the tab and wants an extra week of practice before anyone else gets the tab [:D][:D]

" - SOoo[8|]... whats that voting system again flo ?[sm=Smiley Guitar.gif]"




I am on to his game...gonna watch him like a hawk [&:]


btw..i am hoping we will be ready to start it officialy in a few hours if all goes to plan...but beginners expecially can allready start without the tab..can practice the strumming...can memorise the counts etc...plenty of things one can get started on ..all this needs to be done anyway with or without the tab



at_leo_87 -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 20:40:31)

wait, how does he have the tabs already? is there a conspiracy going on here? [&:]

this competition is going to be TOUGH. i just literally started bulerias compas a few days ago and i have two fingers disabled. somebody hold deniz back so i have a chance even if it's 0.5%

i'm pumped! come on, more judges!



Florian -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 20:43:40)

Deniz is compeating in Intermediate [;)] so hes not compeating against you..



let me know if it would help you if i also uploaded a version of your challenge with my voice counting out loud the compas alongside the music..

also if u need slowed down versions

you will be fine..you will defenetly gain out of it and the guys in your group are around the same kind of level anyway...its pretty even...you are not compeating against anyone but yourself

there will also be help threads where you can help yourselfs, compare notes, ask advice...imagine how good it will be knowing that 8 other people are working on exactly the same thing as you intensly and understand your questions perfectly and can relate..and face the same challenges themselfs so they spend just as much time focusing on it, compare notes etc..
theres no 2 ways about it...this is gold for any beginner

just think of this as an intense buleria workshop..regardless what happens you will be ahead by the end of it



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 20:57:19)

Flo, I don't have this Herrero estudio. Are you going to explain it and break it down--especially the golpes?



Florian -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 20:59:33)

I will post the tab as its written in the book..

if unclear about anything sure anyone can ask questions, between us we will provide anything the beginners need and require all we need if for them to be willing..


for the beginners help thread i will post slowed down version

version of the audio with counting along side..

slow practice loop

tab etc...

there will be unlimited help avilable to anyone there..i am proud we have been able to encourage our newest members into this, for too long they have had to sitt quietly in the back just watching others have all the fun...this one is about them...so personally i will do everything i can to be of help...i am sure everyone else feels the same.

we always talk about how great it would be...well this is it..there will never be a better oportunity then this...each beginer that takes part inspires and encourages another to take part.


lol did that speach help ? are you in ? [:D] i do mean every word..i get a sence of pride if we can manage to be encouraging and usefull and have some fun with it too



at_leo_87 -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 21:11:15)

actually, i think i'm going to learn both pieces. [:D]
is it okay if i decide which one i'm going to post within the last week?
or should i make it clear which class i'd like to participate in now?



Florian -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 21:15:32)

quote:

actually, i think i'm going to learn both pieces.
is it okay if i decide which one i'm going to post within the last week?
or should i make it clear which class i'd like to participate in now?


it should be ok...i cant imagine why not ( unless someone has a problem with it)...its up to you


but if it was me id just focus really hard on one of them...theres nothing to stop u learning both after if you like it...but hey !! whos to say u cant win both [;)] i dont wanna limit you


ideally it would be nice to have some sort of idea of how many and whos compeating in each class but i am not obsessing over it....i like the idea of each class getting a certain amount of healthy competition



cathulu -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 21:21:59)

Yikes, I just heard both pieces!

OK, for the beginners, don't forget you can do a passable version with just your index finger, if you can't do a decent rasgueo. Flo, perhaps you can upload a slightly simpler version as a beginner alternate for those that don't have a decent rasgueo?

As for the intermediate, I think I can do it but not at the tempo you have put out there. It will be a definite challenge! I am stoked!!!

Off to bed to dream of rasgueos and picado...



Exitao -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 21:22:12)

Just a question... if it's audio, not video, then how can you be sure it's not edited?


I mean, if there was money at stake, I know I'd cheat. Wouldn't be able to help it. It's genetic. My people like money.



Florian -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 21:29:01)

quote:

Yikes, I just heard both pieces!


[:D] it is a challenge u know lol

quote:

OK, for the beginners, don't forget you can do a passable version with just your index finger, if you can't do a decent rasgueo. Flo, perhaps you can upload a slightly simpler version as a beginner alternate for those that don't have a decent rasgueo?

yeah sure but lets not encourage going your own way just yet..if your rasqueado is weak...practice it now...try it as it is first and make a good effort of it before you atempt to change it. At the end of the day playing exactly like the audio will always score higher then simillar ( with me atleast..each attempt judged on its own merit but its a risk of how the judge might see it)...creativity is not a criteria in this class..one must walk before they can run..
That is the challenge..to push yourself a litlle and to improve things that are not strong..


you will have about 2 months

quote:

Just a question... if it's audio, not video, then how can you be sure it's not edited?


I mean, if there was money at stake, I know I'd cheat. Wouldn't be able to help it. It's genetic. My people like money.


I know but theres no way around that...we have to go on an honour system...if anyone cheats ..its is not us that are getting cheated..they are just cheating themselfs..and not taking full advantage of the motivation that its beeing offered to them..

not to mention ofcourse theres some audio experts amongst judges [;)] if u thinking of cheating you better be better than Milli Vanilli

but i am joking..noone will cheat, everyone will see this for what it is...a fun oportunity to proove themselfs to themselfs



Francisco -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 21:30:44)

Well, for me, it's not so much about being better than anyone else. But, rather, more about being better than I was before I started the challenge. I'm not looking at this as a way to prove I'm better than the next guy, just trying to improve my own skills. And, quite honestly, I have been a little intimidated to starting Bulerias. But, no more excuses....I bit it, so now I gotta chew it! [;)]

Also, not sure if anyone else had this thought, but since there is a beginner version of the challenge, maybe we could do a cumulative challenge? That is, each successive challenge could build on the previous. For example, next we could do some Buleria falseta as a challenge, then later some remates, etc. To the point that by the end of some time (several months, maybe a year) we would have enough material that a complete Bulerias could be possible, then we have an end of the year challenge where we do the complete Bulerias. This seems more like a beginner thing, but it could be both challenging and didactic at the same time.

What do you think? Good idea, stupid idea? Either way, I need to get my hands on those tabs. I was thinking of just starting by ear, but that might be a bad thing, considering my ears suk! [:D]



Florian -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 21:50:42)

Its not a bad idea at all Francisco [;)]...we can discuss it , think of stuff after this..just got to get through this one first lol

but its defenetlly not stupid


wont be long now before u get the tabs



Matic -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 22:16:02)

I'm in for intermediate.[:)]

And Flo, a suggestion:
DON'T give us more than two months!! The same thing could happen as with El Tempul. Two months is plenty of time for a falseta imo. I would make it 40 days but it's your choice.[8|]

Thanks for your enthusiasm!



Florian -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 22:43:20)

Excellent Matic

quote:

DON'T give us more than two months!! The same thing could happen as with El Tempul. Two months is plenty of time for a falseta imo. I would make it 40 days but it's your choice.



yeah .. i know...need to find a nice balance between doable and not losing momentum..

perhaps give 40 days for intermediate and 50 days for beginners...the deadlines should finish at different times from eachother so that each class gets the atention it deserves and it dosent get confusing... for the judging..

eg.. if they go 10 days later no beginner audios will be uploaded during the intermediate deadline and judging.. and all challenges will be uploaded togheder..not 2 today 5 tomarow..wel try and keep it togheder as much as wee can.. so Michelob should have each members audio atleast 1 day before each clas deadline is due..

also if some beginners come acros new techniques they havent used before i would rather they get a litlle longher on it..


so atm...i am thinkig 40 days for intermediate and 50 for beginners...what do you think ?



Ailsa -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 22:46:50)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
i am thinkig 40 days for intermediate and 50 for beginners...what do you think ?

Think it's too long for beginners. The majority of improvement will be in the first 2 or 3 weeks and then it will plateau out and be more gradual. Then you might just lose momentum. IMO [:)]



Matic -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 23:22:34)

quote:

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
i am thinkig 40 days for intermediate and 50 for beginners...what do you think ?


Think it's too long for beginners. The majority of improvement will be in the first 2 or 3 weeks and then it will plateau out and be more gradual. Then you might just lose momentum. IMO


I agree with Ailsa.
If you ask me, 2, 3 weeks would be enough also for Moraito.
I said 40 days because some members find even 2 months too short.
What about a 25. february Deadline?
We'll see how it evolves and we may re-set the date if people find it too soon (or late).
But, as I said, I think it should be enough. Less talking, more playing...
It's time to throw the tabs out and get the party started!!



Florian -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 26 2009 23:36:00)

sure how about 3 weeks for intermediate and 4 weeks for beginner ? there needs to be atleast a week in between deadlines for the 2 classes imo...for logistical and practical reasons...



its up to you guys ...u tell me how much u want


i am about to get started on uploading the tab...just finishing off some commitments i was soposed to do days ago but am late cause i got too excited about this..



Pimientito -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 27 2009 0:33:39)

Flo - Do you ever sleep man?[:D]

I like this format a lot. The Judging of anonymous recordings will be much fairer.

BTW - If anyone is going to upload an edited recording you better make sure your cut is FLAWLESS. All of the judges are expert cheats don't forget.

I agree with Matic and Ailsa. 3- 4 weeks for practise and then a few days for judging to keep momentum. It should be possible to do a falseta per month. A year for the paco buleria was way too long. Those that could do it had uploaded in the first couple of months and everyone else had forgotten after 4 months.

I suggest that you do each new challenge on a seperate thread though rather than tack them all on th this one. Maybe thay can be archived on a seperate "Foroflamenco challenge" topic if this continues to be popular.

Henry.... Stu.....come on guys. Get signed up!



andresito -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 27 2009 0:53:25)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
sure how about 3 weeks for intermediate and 4 weeks for beginner ?

Sounds good, I might even get around to buying a mic in that time!



Ron.M -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 27 2009 0:55:51)

quote:

Todkk needs to decide if he wants to judge or compete....


Personally I feel Todd should be excluded from entering at these early levels.
It will make a mockery of the competition IMO and perhaps scare folk off.

(Sorry Todd..[:D][:D])

Modifying your technique does NOT set you back to square one in all aspects of Flamenco guitar and Todd has a VAST amount of knowledge and technique.

Todd could help more by being on the judging panel IMO.


Good to see Norman decided to join.
I was hoping that he or Sean or more of the Andalucian residents would join, since they are hearing live performances of this stuf at various levels (amateur/pro) all the time.

cheers,

Ron



Pimientito -> [Deleted] (Jan. 27 2009 1:32:05)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 27 2009 1:35:04



Pimientito -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 27 2009 1:34:39)

quote:

Modifying your technique does NOT set you back to square one in all aspects of Flamenco guitar


Thats a good point Todd. Its an unfair advantage because you already know compas and aire, plus your left hand is super advanced....plus you have your own recording studio[;)] I second Rons nomination as Todd for Judge



Ramirez -> RE: CHALLENGE SUGGETIONS (Jan. 27 2009 1:49:02)

Can we use video? e.g. a video on youtube and send the email link to the judges?



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