Do You Speak Spanish? (Full Version)

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sam_m -> Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 3 2008 7:39:02)

As above, really.

I thought about doing this as a poll, then thought about another (perhaps more important) question, which is this:

Can you (or to what extent can one) enjoy or appreciate flamenco music if you don't speak Spanish?

Discuss.

[;)]




Anders Eliasson -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 3 2008 8:22:01)

You can of course enjoy flamenco without understanding spanish, but it helps. Just like enjoying Bob Dylan and understanding English.

But, I have to say that the flamenco letra can be difficult to understand. Many spaniards find it very difficult. The accent is 100% Andaluz and there´s a lot of gluing together and cutting ends of words going on.




kovachian -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 3 2008 9:21:19)

It's certainly possible but it can be more difficult. At a minimum one should learn the various key words (compas, cante, duende, etc etc etc) because it helps tremendously.




Ron.M -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 3 2008 11:49:07)

Hmmm...
I made a point of hanging out with Spanish friends in Spain and just maintaining a nodding friendship with the ex-pat Americanos and Brits (and English-speaking Germans).
So my Spanish certainly came on a lot then.

I just learned the basics from some books.
I was never great at it but could fumble my way through any idea I needed to express, sometimes with hilarious results!

I guess in the difficult times it probably sounded like "White man speak with forked tongue...I go now..but return when moon has risen three times.."[:D][:D]

But nobody really bothered and I got my meanings across and I learned a heap of swear words and street expressions that you don't get in the Berlitz books!

As for Flamenco...
Normally I can't understand a word of it, but it's sometimes nice to get a translation of songs with great lyrics.
But it's not really THAT important to me in order to enjoy the overall sound...

Spanish is a good language and full of a lot of very enjoyable stuff that doesn't really translate into English without losing the fun and charm and essence of the message IMO.

cheers,

Ron




Mark2 -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 3 2008 12:07:45)

My wife is fuent but doesn't care for flamenco. I stumble around a bit with it, and love flamenco. I'm looking forward to the day when I can post up in a Spanish speaking country for a few months or more and see if I can gain some facility.




John O. -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 4 2008 1:39:38)

All from books, not really any practical experience. I'd really need a half a year in Spain to be able to work with what I know. After a show recently a couple of Spaniards congratulated me in the most basic Spanish and I reacted with "Huh?" [:D]

I've always enjoyed flamenco though [:)] And as far as accompanyment goes, it could help to know better when a letra is ending or when a jaleo would be appropriate, but it's usually enough to listen to how the letra is being sung to find the right chords.




Arash -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 4 2008 2:42:22)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sam_m

Can you (or to what extent can one) enjoy or appreciate flamenco music if you don't speak Spanish?

Discuss.

[;)]


Good news is, you can enjoy instrumental guitar albums with no Cante as much as spanish speaking people [:)]

I started to learn spanish 2 weeks ago (late, i know) with a book and a CD [8|],,, not solely because of flamenco and to understand the Cante, but because i always liked the language.




Pimientito -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 4 2008 3:41:11)

You can enjoy Flamenco without knowing Spanish but you get a much richer appreciation if if you do.
The thing is that even if your Spanish is good you may not get all the letras. I often (mostly) cant get the letra if its sung in a heavy accent. Even Spaniards have trouble understanding it. Even if you can make out the words, there are often mixed meanings plus the odd Caló phrase for good measure.
Saying all that its good to learn Spanish for terminology and to meet other flamencos, especially if you want to learn in Spain. Most Spanish flamencos only speak Spanish.[:)]




srshea -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 4 2008 9:48:11)

Obviously, the deeper your understanding of Spanish language and Andalucian culture is, the deeper your understanding of flamenco will be, but I would say that language fluency is certainly not a prerequisite to enjoying or thoughtfully appreciating flamenco. There are scores of opera fans out there who probably don’t know more that three or four words of Italian, and they get along alright.

The argument that you need to know Spanish to truly appreciate flamenco, taken to one extreme, becomes something along the lines of “Well, if you can’t speak Spanish you’ll never really be able to appreciate cante, so don’t bother.”, which certainly has an unfortunate effect if it discourages people from exploring and listening to flamenco as broadly as they might otherwise.

If you can get a hold of those, unfortunately rare, cds that have the letras in both Spanish and English, then you’re set: you can listen and follow along and cross-compare the Spanish and English and actually get an understanding of what’s being said. But even if you only have the letras in Spanish I think it can still be really interesting and instructive to read along as you listen and see HOW the words are sung, see how certain lines or words are repeated and mixed around, see how certain syllables are stretched or shortened or elided from verse to verse. Even without understanding the content of the lyrics you can still get a satisfying and edifying listening experience in paying attention to the form and the style and the structure of the way letras are sung. A lot of letras are really short, often just a verse or two of four or five short lines, and it’s really interesting to see how such a small handful of words are dealt out through a five, or ten minute performance.

And of course you can still just listen to cante without doing any of this, without understanding a word of what’s being said, and still enjoy and be moved by it.




deyo -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 4 2008 11:55:34)

Last year i signed for 1-year Spanish course just so i can get more from flamenco video lessons (Herrero, Nunez etc.) [8D]




Wannabee -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 9 2008 2:14:21)

Can you understand the andalucian accent (dialect)?

I do speak a bit of Spanish, spent a couple of years in Mexico, then went to Spain to study guitarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......eeeek.

It was like starting from square 1 again, all that "th" business and then the way they cut off all the endings on the words. ay dios mio.

I got the Gerardo Nunez DVD and I can barely understand anything he says, although the more I watch the better it seems. No offense intended to anyone, I just find the andalucian way of hablando a bit daunting.




Ron.M -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 9 2008 5:27:54)

quote:

Can you understand the andalucian accent (dialect)?


There's a free course on YouTube...




Part 2 is good as well! [:D]




cheers,

Ron




Rain -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 9 2008 9:31:32)

I'm trying to learn Spanish as I write this, and currently my teachers are Alejandro Sanz and Gabriel Garcia Lorca.
I'm learning all the important phrases right now like Senora mi corazon es tu yo, and senora mil besos para ti and te quiero mucho. As well, Im righting a romantic song called yo necessita senorita, think heavy techno with driving beat and sing along Yo Necessita Senorita....ay ay ay ay.

Thanx for the links Ron.

Learnig song lyrics as well as reading spanish poetry with english translation on one side of page and the spanish on the other is really helping.




Pimientito -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 9 2008 9:43:04)

quote:

No offense intended to anyone, I just find the andalucian way of hablando a bit daunting.


The accent here is tough. I didnt understand anything for the first couple of years and just thought it was because I'm an idiot. Then I visited Madrid and understood everyone and realised it just takes getting used to. Now I understand Andalu' better than people from Northern Spain. Its the equivalent of going to a suburb in Newcastle....or some bywater in deep Louisiana to learn English.




Kate -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 9 2008 10:08:51)

Soy la mu'er de 'aro''


[;)]




Ron.M -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 9 2008 12:03:10)

HaHa!

I'm glad you all liked it.

Luis Lara (the presenter) is a Jerezano and I just love the guy...a great "larger than life character"...if you had to tie his hands together, he wouldn't be able to speak!
I can see a lot of Moraito in him.

In the advert for the second part, note that he does a bit of "spoof" Flamenco at the end that is practically like a one-man juerga...[:D]

However, the serious message is IMO, that Luis has más Flamenco feeling in that spoof bit than a lot of folk have in their serious audio uploads, including myself.
That's what it's like to be born and brought up there.
That's how stiff the competition will be to get accepted in "true" Flamenco circles.

It can be done (Amir, Tino...)

But it's tough!

That is just something to contemplate for all of us IMO.

cheers,

Ron




rolly -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 10 2008 2:50:21)

I'm from Arab country and I find tight relationship between our culture and flamenco art ...sounds very close to my senses. Even if there is a big diffrence as I know about the Eastren music....but I enjoy flamenco more than our musics and its my own opinon I have my reasons.I'm not good in spanish..nor English [:D] ... but I enjoy the art...
I have a dreams or long tearm thing to do is to find Arab team sing Arabic poems in flamenco fourm with just flamenco musics no additons ....




Kate -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 10 2008 6:23:03)

Where are you from Rolly ?

There are some interesting recordings of Andalusi music, such as the orchestra de Tetuan which you may already know about. These artists quite often join up with flamencos from Granada to perform. We recorded a CD called Al Kantara a few years back, and Paco de Lucia mentions in one of his biographies in an interview as being the best fusion of flamenco and Andalusi recording that he ever heard. If anyone sees a copy of this grab it fast as it is no longer available. One of those projects that got an arts grant and only released about 1,000 copies.

I agree that knowledge of a language is not necessary to appreciate music. I enjoy lots of Moroccan music with no idea of the language. I can say hello and thank you in Arabic and that's about all.




gj Michelob -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 10 2008 6:52:43)

Rolly, I find the addition of some middle eastern, Moorish variations to Flamenco to be hypnotizing. Your idea is certainly an entertaining project you ought to pursue.
Lara St. John, the renown violinist, issued her new CD “re: Bach” blending a formal execution of Bach’s violin work with percussions. The third track, “Goldberg2”, has an Arabic yelling/singing over middle-eastern flavored percussions, accompanying Bach’s familiar counterpoint. The result is quite pleasurable and “sexy” (as we would describe it in fashion) piece. I suppose it would be a phenomenal combination to have Arabic poetry sang over flamenco guitar, and perhaps a percussive base.

Also, without daring the current political climate, I suggest that music may mediate some of the cultural gap that seems to separate the West from the Arab-countries. This could be a fine start to bridge the gap.

Saludos, amigo –es un dia de sol(ea) caliente in Los Angeles –too bad I am to leave it in the afternoon for colder Venice.

ciao




veet -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 10 2008 14:11:15)

The more you get into it, the more indispensable it becomes. If you want to travel in Spain, study with Spanish artists, or get to perform with a Spanish touring company, they only speak Spanish, so finesse is completely lost. And not understanding a letra you miss everything that's being said.




rolly -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 11 2008 2:40:14)

Hi kate
I'v just known from the net about Tetuan..... morish folklore singer .
Ididn't know nothing about her couse I am Syrian and I travil to Kwuait from time to time... my parents lives there and I finished my highschool there too. now I'm studying Architecture in Damascus now Im 21 ...this is about me .
so there is a long way to reach to what I'm talking about [:(] ....anyway what I'm talking about is also from our folklore some from Syria and some from the Arabian Gulf .In the gulf thay have songs called -Oh ya mal- thay sung it before they found the petrol.... it talks about the beuty of the sea and the desert ...and the hard day work in the sea in collecting pearls..and how danguras it was ..so they were miss thair families while the diving season..
I will try to upload a -oh ya mal- recording to feel how it is close to the flamenco or some gypsy rhythm.




Kate -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 11 2008 5:08:45)

I'd love to hear that if you can upload it. There are theories which point to Egypt, India, Persia and Syria as the origins of the Gypsy. I wonder if there is a connection with Syrian folklore and the Domari. I believe they are called Zott in Damascus.

I found this interesting link about Middle eastern Gypsies.
http://www.geocities.com/domarisociety/music.htm

Good luck with your studies and your music

Kate




rolly -> RE: Do You Speak Spanish? (Dec. 11 2008 8:15:48)

Hi again,


Unfortunately, I couldn't find nice -oh ya mal- recording.... its too old ,I watch it in TV and I don't have digi-recordings to share.

Unfortunately, A small number of people enjoy this art only old traditonal people so there is no recordings on the net.

but I found this sweet recording ,its without Percussion but I think u will feel what I'm talkin about....the coral sing ''ehhhhhhhhhhhhh'' expressing the sound of the waves hitting the ship, the file is .rm or .ram I think so it needs real player to play.

ho ya mal play and tell me what is ur opinion[:)]

this is a picture of 2 small Kuwaiti ships




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