Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Full Version)

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Barrozo -> Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 23 2008 3:59:35)

Hey everyone!

I'm starting at flamenco and my interest in it is increasing so much. However, my money doesn't increase the same way [:'(]... I'm praticing in a classical guitar (the fact is that I'm a classical guitar student), and I would like to know if there is huge diferences between playing flamenco on a classical guitar and laying it on a flamenco guitar.



Ron.M -> RE: Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 23 2008 6:33:57)

Hi Barrozo,

Yes, it's possible to begin with, but with a standard classical setup, you'll find golpe etc awkward to do because of the string/soundboard distance.

There have been a few threads about this in the past if you want to googlesearch the Forum.

Here's one...

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=88103&tmode=1&smode=1&p=

cheers,

Ron



gj Michelob -> RE: Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 23 2008 7:40:52)

Hi Barrozo and Ron: I too started that way. I had the action of one classical guitar lowered at 2mm, added golpeadores (and kept it by the stereo’s speakers while listening to Tomatito and Amigo’s solos… to imbue the duende spirit ). It does help –save for the spiritual part, probably because I did not wait para una noche de media luna-, but a flamenco guitar, even a Negra, is not only about action and tap-guards. The basses sustain, for instance, remains an issue although one can mitigate it by playing closer to the bridge.

This Domingo Esteso [at GSI] was originally a classical guitar which Sabicas first and then Pepe Romero, used as you intend to, as a Flamenco Negra, perhaps contradicting what I wrote.
http://www.guitarsalon.com/product.php?productid=3234

Have fun, flamenco is a beautiful art and getting tangled and wired up in the search for that unique sound your heart craves is not necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps the one single most important thing I learned about this issue is that much is contingent upon the “lightest touch”, as it will yield the best sound.



Pimientito -> RE: Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 23 2008 9:16:29)

Hi Barrozo
I posted this last week if it helps. I would agree with Michelob though...setting up the guitar will help you play with flamenco technique but edventually you will need a flamenco guitar.

"Flamenco guitars are like cars or clothes or anything else. You can pay as much or as little as you like. A really good concert flamenco guitar will cost $4000+..... but you can cheat on your first guitar (which I do alot for students)
Firstly find a second hand student classical guitar for $100 dollars or so. There are bargains out there if you look. Charity shops, adverts in shops, friends with unwanted presents etc...its surprising how many people have guitars in the cupboard they dont play. Generally stay away from anything made in China. Providing the neck is straight and the intonation is ok you can get a music shop or even better, a guitar maker to fit a Golpe plate (clear plastic protector) to the top, and adjust the action, polish the frets, check the nut and generally set the guitar up. This costs about 50 euros in Spain..I don't know what a set up costs in the US. For under 200 dollars you will have a guitar that at least you can learn and practice on until you are ready for a better instrument.

PS Actually I would advise almost any beginner to invest a small amount in taking their guitar to be set up anyway. Even quite good instruments sometimes have horribly high actions and are left unfinished. It is assumed (in spain) that the player will set it up to suit themselves afterwards so often the bridge and frets are left rough. A professional set up may not change the sound so much on a student instrument but it will play like a totally different guitar and solve many technique problems."



Haizum -> RE: Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 23 2008 11:25:03)

Barozzo, I too am learning with a classical guitar and have played on a flamenco guitar and I do notice a difference. However as I have not yet gone out and bought one, I am still using the classical. As pimientito said, just getting a cheap one and getting it set up right can make a world of difference, though personally as a beginner I am more than happy with using a classical for the time being.



Munin -> RE: Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 23 2008 13:07:57)

I just bought a Sanchis 2F-05 a few weeks ago, was using a cheap classical before, and boy, it makes a difference, not only in sound (especially in the bass), but in the whole feel. It's just worlds apart, even though it might not seem like it, at a first glance.

That being said, as long as you don't realize what you're missing out on, playing on a classical is just fine - as said, I did it too. But reward yourself at some point with a real flamenco guitar, and if you've already picked up some skill by then, all the better, because then you'll really notice how incredible the difference is.



Barrozo -> RE: Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 23 2008 14:00:35)

Thanks for all the tips, guys. I will think about setting up a cheap guitar. [:D]



Florian -> RE: Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 23 2008 15:26:19)

I am not sure if anyone mentioned it but the most important thing is bringing the bridge and nut (if necesarey) down...but most often is just the bridge..


how low?...there's luthiers here..perhaps one of them could advice you on the typical measurements

if its a cheap one and u not worried about nail marks u dont even necesarely need a glopeador, it dosent add anything to the sound just protects the guitar



Pimientito -> RE: Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 24 2008 2:00:20)

You get more than nail marks though. If you keep hitting the same spot, the wood edventually splits and in the worst cases you can put your finger through the guitar top.The Golpe plate gives a bright "tap" with the nail which is louder than the body sound. Golpe plate is only 10 dollars instead of 500+ for changing the top.



Florian -> RE: Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 24 2008 3:39:23)

i prefer the "body" sound..well its not ideal but its not the end of the world lol...if the guitar is a cheap $20 one

i have never ever heard of anyone that put a whole in his guitar with glope...its one of those 1 out 10000..

a glope plate is a good idea if u have a valuable guitar u wana protect ..but to me its the equivalent of a plastic bag on top of a nice looking couch [:D]

i am no expert by any means but i would have imagined the plastic would soften and dull down the sound and volume ? is it a fact what u are saying ?..u could be right i pressume..

I guess my appreciation for it would have been different if i had some problems but i never really had any holes or cracks so i gues i dont value it as much as i should..

(Oh i did put a crack in Alos guitar years ago though [8|] trying to play drunk at a party.....watching my finghers closely ...next thing i know i was on my back looking at the sealing [&:] but it wasent glope ..it got impaled in the legs of a metal chair...i think[8|])

almost forghoten about the guilt...now its back ....

if i got a $20 guitar i wouldnt bother...infact would love the luxury of the glope beeing at that full hollow sound

quote:

Golpe plate is only 10 dollars instead of 500+ for changing the top.


why not add another 10 bucs and get another second hand cheap guitar [:)]...



Pimientito -> RE: Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 24 2008 4:18:06)

quote:

i have never ever heard of anyone that put a hole in his guitar with golpe...its one of those 1 out 10000..


Not round here it isn't. [:D][:D] Every flamenco bar, every guitar makers workshop has guitars with that injury. I've seen it done before by Marcial Heredia and I know loads of others who have done that.

NEVER EVER give a gypsy player an unprotected guitar to play. It will end in tears!
I lent an Aguilate to someone (un-named) once to play for one gig and had to get the whole instument re finished afterwards.

If the top is made of plywood or something well then you cant do that, but some of these guys have highly developed forearm muscles, a ferociously hard technique and very tough nails. The top can get a serious hammering. On a solid top, the grain weakens, splits and the finger simply punches through the wood.
The plate doesn't affect the sound as much as you would think and the modern plastic plates are great compared to the old fasioned bone golpe plates and virtually invisible now if fitted correctly. (get a luthier to do it) If your guitar is only 20 bucks then it would be amazing if it keeps tune at all either end of the fretboard.....but Yeah, changing the top is time consuming, expensive and usually cheaper to buy a new guitar.



mark indigo -> RE: Playing Flamenco with a Classical Guitar (Nov. 24 2008 10:16:27)

quote:

quote:

i have never ever heard of anyone that put a hole in his guitar with golpe...its one of those 1 out 10000..

Not round here it isn't. Every flamenco bar, every guitar makers workshop has guitars with that injury. I've seen it done before by Marcial Heredia and I know loads of others who have done that.


i seen Marcial play quite a few times when he was living over here (UK) with Jingle, any idea what he's up to now?



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