Toros y flamenco (Full Version)

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Guest -> Toros y flamenco (Nov. 16 2008 5:44:37)

http://www.mediafire.com/?t0zqimj2knt

Sean



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 16 2008 8:16:14)

Sean,

So what do you wanna say with this?

I know that you like bullfighting and I know about the links between flamenco and bullfighting.

Personally I dont have any problems with considering myself flamenco and at the same time disliking bullfighting.



takitaka -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 16 2008 8:30:14)

look man the bulls will always have bigger BALLS than the boys that like to watch this stuff get over it !!



henrym3483 -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 16 2008 9:30:54)

go on the super bull!!!!




Anders Eliasson -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 16 2008 23:32:11)

What a horror.

The guys who prepared the bull did a bad job. It has to be semi dead when it enters. Its obvious that this one was only 40% dead.



Taranto -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 4:36:04)

Hey Sean, ojalá! [:D]



Pimientito -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 4:56:54)

quote:

go on the super bull!!!!


I've never figured out why with such a long history of bullfighting there are still places where they never thought to build fences high enough to stop bull jumping over them!!

Anders- I know how much you hate bull fighting, and I'm not defending its cruelty but please...the bulls are anything but half dead. Thats half a tonne of testosterone and muscle at 30 mph and people do frequently get killed.

VIDEO OF BULL KILLING BULLFIGHTER REMOVED



Jan Willem -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 5:37:00)

@ pimiento;

I'm not a great fan of the corrida but it's terrible how anti- bullfighting protestors lack any empathie with the torreador. They see him as a vicious killer and are blind to his art or let alone his life.
I don't want to start a whole discusion but in the dramatic video you posted (I didn't watch it 'cause I already saw some vid's like that and it really really gets me, soo dramatic ayy!) the discription starts with One of my favorite clips, showing how I like every Bullfighter to end up. .

It's a crazy thing of this time that people share more emotions with animals than they do with men. Don't get me wrong you have to have respect for animals but when it comes to life and dead, there shouldn't be a choice to make.
Most of the time these saying come from people who have absolutely nothing to do with animals. They project al kind of things in animals that they are not.

Just my reaction [:)]



Pimientito -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 6:26:18)

Jan. I can't disagree with you. Bulls do die cruelly and toreadors risk injury and death for public entertainment. Which is worse? I can't argue that point.

I will say though that I have a certain emotional detachment for the subject. Coming from England, sports like Bullfighting are considered distainful. Having moved to Spain I have been exposed to it regularly on TV and often you cant get away from it as they show it on giant flat screens in many bars and restaurants. Many small villages have bull fights which are the focus of entertainment at annual fairs and many freinds who are flamencos are great bull fighting afficionandos.

So, like it or not, it is something in the culture I have chosen to live in and something I chose to at least understand a bit about, as it is part of the same culture of flamenco. I'm sure this thread will stir up the usual emotions but at least get the facts right. I was just pointing out that Spanish bulls are not tame, docile or IN GENERAL drugged up when they enter. Whatever your feeling for bullfighting , it is undeniably highly dangerous.

BTW-The video does not say "showing how I like every Bullfighter to end up."



henrym3483 -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 6:51:28)

heres a karate man that made his rep by breaking the horn off a bull by karate choping it. that being said the asian cattle are a lot smaller





Jan Willem -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 7:17:12)

quote:

I was just pointing out that Spanish bulls are not tame, docile or IN GENERAL drugged up when they enter. Whatever your feeling for bullfighting , it is undeniably highly dangerous.

BTW-The video does not say "showing how I like every Bullfighter to end up."


I know they aren't [8D], saw it in real life a couple of times. It's scary even in the tribune when they enter.

Ps; My post wasn't an attack on your previous post. It was just a reaction on the youtube video you posted. In that description (copypaste)
NEVER MESS WITH A LAMBORGHINI!

One of my favorite clips, showing how I like every Bullfighter to end up. This is the 600 kg/1320 lb beast "Cabatisto" killing Manolo Montiliu on 01. May 1992 in Sevilla.
Take a look at this 600 kilogram of muscle, strength & power facing these faggots with those pink socks in a totally unfair fight. A fight, designed to give the poor creatures a slow, painful death.

Nevertheless me & many people around the world become happy, seeing once in a while that the faggots get what they deserve: A slow... painful... DEATH! Enjoy watching...



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 8:11:11)

quote:


Anders- I know how much you hate bull fighting


Pimiento, I only said that I disliked it.[;)]

Funny enough, the huge majority of Spaniards that I know and almost all my friends are spanish, really hate bullfighting. Please remember this when you talk about the spanish and their culture.
Besides, we all make errors when using the word culture. We use it as a possitive loaded word. Its not. Its just a word. Culture can be good and bad. Just look at the way culture is used all over the world.



henrym3483 -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 9:10:46)

ok i saw the clip, pretty rough.

lesson to kid's if you wanna live and enjoy life dont mess with big dangerous animals.

hunting with my father in ireland we've be confronted and had to make a legger when bulls are unrestrained on land, if youve been chased by a big animal you can do alot of things i managed to scale and jump over a 10ft hedge when we were chased by a number of bullocks hanging around in the blind spot of a field

on another occasion my father was cornered by one he picked up a 6lb rock and hit it between the eyes the bull got up on its hind legs and then ran off, but my father said that was the time he was in most fear of his life.



Pimientito -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 10:13:25)

quote:

the huge majority of Spaniards that I know.....really hate bullfighting


It is certainly a point of controversy in todays Spain. It definantely depends where you are too. Here in Granada the bullring is bigger then the soccer stadium and a lot of the Spanish I know here are afficianados. I would also venture saying that the bull fights are more popular in Andalucia than say in Northern Spain. Back when there was extreme poverty in Andalucia, the bull fight was a ritualistic slaughter that provided meat for the fiestas. Once we remove hunger, then attitudes to treatment of animals changes, which is the basis of the growing divide between those in favor and those against the bullfight.

When I say culture I am talking about the environmental factors that contribute to a society and its art/music. Culture can be positive or negative. Rastafarians smoke marijuana as part of their "culture" and its an inherent part of reggae. There is a "culture" of guns and violence in aspects of hip hop. That doesnt mean you have to actively take part or approve of those aspects...but it is important to understand those elements as being integral to the development. Thats my point with the bullfight...its not a positive part of the culture but its something that should be understood because it does crop up in the letras and baile of flamenco.



Ron.M -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 11:33:05)

quote:

i managed to scale and jump over a 10ft hedge when we were chased by a number of bullocks hanging around in the blind spot of a field


Hey, that's funny Henry,
I was not bad at sports at school, but I was always pretty crap at high jump or hurdling.
That is until a friend and I were crossing a field once and got chased by a bull.

I managed to clear a 6 foot fence at full speed even though I was knackered from running...[:D]

cheers,

Ron

(PS: After I picked myself up, we were then both chased by Alsatian farm dogs for about half a mile down the road.
So much for a day out in the country...eh? [:D] )



henrym3483 -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 11:52:12)

quote:

quote:

i managed to scale and jump over a 10ft hedge when we were chased by a number of bullocks hanging around in the blind spot of a field

Hey, that's funny Henry,
I was not bad at sports at school, but I was always pretty crap at high jump or hurdling.
That is until a friend and I were crossing a field once and got chased by a bull.


i'd also note i was 12 years of age and a couple of stone lighter than i am now[:D]



Jan Willem -> RE: Toros y flamenco (Nov. 18 2008 23:31:52)

quote:

and got chased by a bull.


Been there done that :-). The most strange chase I'v ever encountered was a little (shetland) pony (1.10 m +-). The little guy was furious that we stepped into his field and he attacked us. 14 years of experience with horses couldn't stop me from running. It was very funny to us.....afterwards. [:)]


Ps; who took two points away from my score? I didn't really said anything wrong have I?



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