My second time accompanying...with Jim and Ron (Full Version)

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Rob -> My second time accompanying...with Jim and Ron (May 27 2004 20:17:49)

My second time accompanying dancers...but
the this time with the very helpful presence of
Jim Opfer and Ron.M. [:)]This forum is a wonderful
place. I mention I need help accompanying, and two
great players turn up to help me out! I should add
here that I also need lots of money...

I think Jim might be uploading a photo of the three
of us busking a bulerias. Unfortunately we forgot
about the camera when we were with the dancers...
And we didn't record it...[8D]

One of the dancers (muy bonita!) knows a cajon player
so she, he and I will be forming a little practice
troup.

Ron gave me great advice on splitting the solea compas
into two equal parts, and Jim was very helpful when it
came to communicating with the dance teacher. I learned
more tonight than have learned for a long time.

Thanks lads. You are welcome back anytime.

Rob[sm=tongue.gif]



Escribano -> RE: My second time accompanying...with Jim and Ron (May 27 2004 21:05:01)

Jim and Ron have been a little starved up there for a while, nice to hear you're getting it together and that the forum played some small part[:D]



Ron.M -> RE: My second time accompanying...with Jim and Ron (May 27 2004 21:12:57)

Hi Rob,
Just got back myself.
Wow! that Croatian girl was a real honey, wasn't she? [;)]
A great afternoon. If it wasn't for Jim I'd have been lost trying to play for that dancer.
All the students were lovely people, coming up and thanking us for coming along.
I was quite touched by that.
I also liked that they preferred "real" guitar, however imperfect, to their "perfect" CD's.
I loved that funky Bulerias falseta you played too.
We'll have to meet up again in "The Space".
Again, a great afternoon!

cheers

Ron



Miguel de Maria -> RE: My second time accompanying...with Jim and Ron (May 27 2004 21:41:56)

Flamenco por kilts



Guest -> [Deleted] (May 27 2004 23:26:35)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jul. 11 2004 12:18:44



Billyboy -> RE: My second time accompanying...with Jim and Ron (May 28 2004 0:07:00)

What sesh was this, was it a course or something
Cheers
dave



Guest -> [Deleted] (May 28 2004 2:33:22)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jul. 11 2004 12:18:55



Rob -> RE: My second time accompanying...with Jim and Ron (May 28 2004 6:41:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

Flamenco por kilts



[:@]Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!![:@]

Rob
PS [sm=lol.gif]



Ron.M -> RE: My second time accompanying...with Jim and Ron (May 28 2004 13:04:16)

quote:

Ron, I'd be interested in your idea about breaking into 6s.


Andy,
It's not anything you don't know already, it's just that I think when you are learning, it's easier to feel the mood and phrasing of Soleares better by thinking of it in two pairs of 6 rather than a straight 3, 6, 8, 10, 12
In the first six, beat 3 is the climax with 4,5 and 6 quiet(er) to give the 3 "room to breathe", then in the second six, 7,8,9 lead to a resolving 10, with 11 and 12 giving the 10 "room to breathe".
It was an interesting experience working with a dancer, but I got the impression that it requires a lot of "pre-arrangement" of choreography and guitar to work right, much as you have said in previous posts.
Although if you're interested in doing that and putting on shows etc, then I think it would be a lot of fun.
I still think cante accompaniment is really what I'd like to learn most.
But there's no doubt that hours and hours of working in a dance class must improve your compás and rhythm immensely.

cheers

Ron



Guest -> [Deleted] (May 28 2004 13:44:41)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jul. 11 2004 12:19:04



Ron.M -> RE: My second time accompanying...with Jim and Ron (May 28 2004 17:09:25)

Good tips Andy, also the palmas tips in your later post.
I might be wrong here, but this was just my impression...
I had a feeling that the dance teacher had a number of mini routines or rhythmic patterns which she mixed and matched to produce a certain routine.
Now when Jim asked on which beat she was starting a particular piece of taconeo she had just demonstrated, she had to stop and think and work it out.
Even then it sometimes wasn't clear to me.[:-]
I had a sneaking feeling that when dancers practise with an unfamiliar record, they listen then "get in sync", with a familiar beat.
Now generally, since the footwork will be sounding 1 or 2 times (or triplets) per beat, they will be at least "keeping time".
If they get out of compás then they will add a few steps in to finish on the 10.
In the above case, they know the recording is correct, so will adjust to get it right.
But when working with a "live" guitarist, they may "wing it" with a number of rhythmic patterns and movements which to them may sound and feel cool.
So when they end on 8 and the guitarist ends on 10 then the looks start. LOL!
To be fair to them, I've worked on making up the odd buleria falseta, which felt and sounded ok, but when I've counted it out is maybe 2 beats over or under.
It can sometimes take a bit of working out to see just exactly the timing error happened.
(Usually the bit that produced the error was the "cool" bit, and once corrected doesn't sound cool anymore! LOL!)
Previously I had always thought of dancers as being pretty much flawless as far as compás goes since that is their main stock in trade.
But now I'm not so sure.
I think they find it just as difficult and confusing at times just like us.

cheers

Ron



Miguel de Maria -> RE: My second time accompanying...with Jim and Ron (May 28 2004 17:58:16)

I think a good analogy is the level of experience of the dancer to the guitarist. Most of us know a few compas patterns, a number of falsetas, a varying number of desplantes. Now, give us some palmas, and watch us go! We're going to be throwing these things together, hopefully with some semblance of order and drama, and not just a Tomatito-like vomit of falsetas.

Probably dancers are the same, they have their little "falsetas" of dance that they can hopefully throw in here or there.

Just like guitarists, the more "falsetas" they know, the more rhythmic patterns and moves they "own", the more improvisatory their jams will be. But most students cannot jam at all and most dancers, non-Spanish pro or not, are not good at it.



Guest -> [Deleted] (May 28 2004 19:25:54)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jul. 11 2004 12:19:14



Jim Opfer -> RE: My second time accompanying...with Jim and Ron (May 29 2004 15:36:58)

It was a fine sunny day and super venue for the scots tocaors.
Rob was right, the dance teacher was a wee bit wobbly on her compas and that gave us an excuse to break out and have a jamb in the foyer[;)]

Ron pulled out a brilliant Buleria and tasteful Fandangos while big Rob demonstrated an intricate passage por Buleria that he had recently made up, very intricate and using a lot of that skill acquired from many years playing Lute at concert level.

I'll post some pics so you folks can put some faces to the names once I find out how to do it.

Flamenco guitar's a great thing, how else and why else would we have met and now we're all big pals trying to help each other. Pure dead brilliant! (as we say)

Cheers
Jim.



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