Francisco -> RE: America (Nov. 10 2008 22:41:15)
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So along the same lines then the current crisis is not a problem? You are contradicting yourself in a way by making this statement. Um, well, I do tend to contradict myself, but it's not the case here. The current crisis is a huge problem. It's not going to correct itself by throwing more money at essentially the same people that got us in this mess (Gubment). When I say that I'll be alright,what I mean is that me and my immediate family could sustain ourselves for a while. Our standard of living would not be anywhere near what it is currently, but at least we could feed ourselves. That's what I mean when I say "I'll be ok!" There are extended family, friends and a lot of people in general that would be in a dire situation if we experienced an economy crisis similar to what happened in Germany in the early 20s. quote:
You talk about how this country needs change and then say that economic downturn is not going to hurt you. Apparently it is hurting many people right now otherwise why vote socialism? The country does need change! The change I was hoping for was was in the form of Ron Paul being elected. I'm not into making predicitons, but I don't suspect Obama will change the direction of this country as much as people may think. I will say tho, lately I have been having some difficulty understanding wrapping my brain around the boolean logic that seems to permeate from every nook and cranny these day. As if one who votes against the 'conservative' party must be pro socialist. Or, anyone that espouses any socialist ideology must be socialist. Here's something you can chew on (as you would say), the last 3 republican presidents have been more socialist than the last 3 democratic presidents. The problem as I see it, is that they have been socialist for the rich instead of the poor. Giving more to those that don't need it is another approach I can not understand. quote:
You talk about Warren Buffet as if, like Bush, he is an impersonation and epitome of all evil out there. You're intent on misunderstanding me, or so it seems. I would not use both those guys' names in the same sentence other than to say they both start with 'B'. Buffet's a good guy. I know that it is in part greed that drives some of the more successful, but it seems that Buffet keeps it in check. I don't get the impression you watched the video I linked. No, he's not an epitome of all the evil out there, he's hope that not all those multi billionaire's are out to build bigger empire on the back of those less fortunate. quote:
Plus again you are missing the point. The money that is not spent on taxes are often put to good use. Let's say you are running a company and you get a tax break. Now you can expand your company, create new business lines, enter new markets, and hire more people. Missing the point? I guess. Depends on what point your referring to. You can go on believing that there are corporations that are going to 'do good' with the extra cash we're throwing at them, but I would hope that eventually someone that cares about you would invite you back to reality. Yea yea, they're spending on R&D, but the new developments are mainly produced with the intent to create more profit for the corporation. And, that's cool, I don't have a problem with that. They have to turn a profit to survive. I do have a problem with tactics like paying lobbyist to get certain bills passed that benefits the corporation at the cost of the little guy or the environment, or when they buy patents of competing technology that would provide society a cheaper more environmentally friendly alternative which would benefit he consumer, all in the name of profit for the corporation. But, yeah, whatever. quote:
In other words, ultimately the rich capitalist will do much more good in the community then the welfare recipient who relies on his reproductive capabilities to get more from the government. Uh, bull$hit! Trickle down economics doesn't work! Sorry. The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer! This isn't about welfare cases that take advantage of the system. It's about middle of the road people who are working more for less income than we did 30 years ago. Yea yeah, still not as bad as some developing countries. , But for those of us that have been here, and have seen the changes, let's just say that it's a trend that should not be allowed to continue. The norm back in the day, was single income families, where there was at least one parent that stayed with the children. Now, it takes 2 incomes for the average citizen to maintain the standard. quote:
In terms of ER. The charges are very frequently waived because the patients have nothing to show for. 'Waived' is a bit of a misnomer. You're right. The ER is obligated to treat. They will charge you at an inflated rate, and you don't have to pay. But, it isn't 'free'. It still going to get paid for, or the hospital will no longer provide the service, once their profit margin isn't what the board thinks it should be. There's a problem with emergency department over burdened by patients that go to the ER because they don't have insurance, so they don't go to primary care clinics for what are essentially simple symptoms that do not require acute care. Relying on ERs to address the increasing number of those uninsured will be a grossly expensive approach. quote:
And come on, we are not going to get into how much "beer they consumed", that's infantile. Infantile? It's your analogy, not mine! The flaw in the reasoning used is apparent to anyone with at least two brain cells working in unison. Noone's making the rich out to be bad. There's a few good ones. Likewise, not all those taking advantage of certain social programs are not all lazy, worthless ppl looking for a hand out. Who's glorifying the poor? I just don't think they should all be lumped into one group, who are going to take advantage of what little hand out they can get. Note, I said not 'all'. There are some, sure, but there are also 'some' at the other end of the spectrum! quote:
I will take “Paliny” any day over empty rhetoric heard from the opposite camp. You see, I think this illustrates one of the problems with the current climate in politics. This polar perspective that keeps us at odds with each other over what are essentially non issues. I have noticed that because I espouse some socialist ideas then I'm pro socialism, and therefore I must be pro Obama and socialism. Likewise, when I espouse certain conservative ideas, then I'm a Bush lover. I want to help those less fortunate, and I'm a socialist. I would like fiscal conservatism, there for I'm a capitalist. If you want to talk about infantile, there is nothing more child like than this all or nothing mentality. There is a whole other realm of infinite possibilities, if you have a open enough mind. I don't have anything against Palin, and maybe my reference to her earlier was a bit unfair. But, she just embodies another serious problem that we have. Mr. Magenta eluded to it in another thread, whether he knew it or not. The problem is that there has been a somewhat serious dumbing down in this country for several decades now, or so it seems. We approach politics as if it's some sort of team sport. One team against the other. One a conservative team, the other liberal. We even give them their own colors. Then, assign the general public to one of two teams. All the while, the two teams don't really exist as we think we know them to exist. The red team is acting like the blue team. Etc,. That's infantile! Sorry for the long read. I really do have a lot of other stuff I need to get done. Just couldn't resist. This is way more effort than I wanted to put out on this topic tho. I'm starting to see where Ricardo is coming from in this thread: http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=93537&appid=&p=&mpage=3&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#93854 And when he says... quote:
I don't talk politics on the net I'm beginning to understand why. This is long enough. Oh, wait one more thing. If he does anything, I hope Obama gets us out Iraq. Enough lives have been lost/changed for the worst over there. Peace out... Francisco Edit for formatting issues, woopsy! There's still some spelling and grammar issues too, but F' it. I'm tired, and still want to practice. I'm out!
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