Good Improvising scales (Full Version)

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Reinhardt -> Good Improvising scales (Oct. 12 2008 21:59:21)

Hi all,

Can you guys please post a few good scale to improvise on?

Thx in advance



ToddK -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 12 2008 23:49:23)

Improvising lead lines over a chord progresion?

what are the chords?

What scales are you currently using/or familiar with?

If you know the major scale, then you already know tons of scales.

If you're talking about playing changes, dont think "linear scales".
Think "connect the dots, with chord tones" Its all about tonal centers.
The 3rd and dominant 7th of the chord.



Reinhardt -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 2:24:52)

Any chords really, Im currently learning spanish gypsie scales that i got from www.all-guitar-chords.com thats closest to flamenco i can get. Any tips and scales to help me improvise the quickest will be much appreciated,

Thx in advance



henrym3483 -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 2:31:49)

get 47 picados book by jorge berges. great reference for flamenco scales. either that or manuel grandos tecnica de la guitarra flamenca. lots of scales and exercises for the left hand.



Munin -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 3:15:26)

The Granados book is indeed great. Most valuable all-round resource of exercises I've ever bought.



cathulu -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 10:39:57)

OK, I don't know very much. In terms of improvisation, I think that applies mainly to rumbas. Other palos, I get the impression you mix and match various falsetas you already know in pleasing ways.

So how about this one for a rumba. Use the scale Paco uses in Entre Dos Aguas b,c,d,e,f#,g,a (i.e. the G major scale) and improvise over a two chord vamp Am7 and Bm7. The trick is landing on the chord notes in a melodic fashion over each chord.

Add in the full chord progression Am7, Bm7, Am7 and B7. On the B7 you have to change scale, don't ask me which one, I don't know. Just land on the D# and take a break.



guitarbuddha -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 10:58:18)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

Improvising lead lines over a chord progresion?

what are the chords?

What scales are you currently using/or familiar with?

If you know the major scale, then you already know tons of scales.

If you're talking about playing changes, dont think "linear scales".
Think "connect the dots, with chord tones" Its all about tonal centers.
The 3rd and dominant 7th of the chord.



I agree with Todd about this . Learning scale finger patterns is a DEAD END if someone wants to really learn to improvise. 'Connecting the dots between chord tones' is a great way to think of scales.

Jamie Aebesold the great Jazz educator has lots of great material breaking down and introducing improvising. It can be applied to flamenco and most easily to Rhumba and such like where there is a lot of cycle of fourths movement.

D.



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 12:20:48)

quote:

Jamie Aebesold the great Jazz educator has lots of great material breaking down and introducing improvising.


Here's a link to Jamie Aebersold's website.

http://www.aebersold.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc

He has a lot of products. My favorite two and the more basic of his offerings are:

"The II-V7-I Progression"
"Jazz and Rock: NOTHIN' BUT BLUES"

These two albums both consist of play-along music tracks.

As for scales you should learn the modes generated by the major scale and the chords that go with them as well as the whole tone scale, harmonic and melodic minor scales and diminished scale. The diminished arpeggio and diminished tri-tones are worth knowing, too. Learn some basic chord progressions used in jazz and the basics of applying the scales appropriate to them.



cathulu -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 13:27:25)

Just thinking a bit more, and learning, the example I gave I think is exactly what Todd was saying. You are using a mode of the G major scale.

In Entre Dos Aguas Paco is landing on the 3rds a lot - the C for Am7, D for Bm7 and the D# for B7. There ya go.



ToddK -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 14:50:26)

quote:

In Entre Dos Aguas Paco is landing on the 3rds a lot - the C for Am7, D for Bm7 and the D# for B7. There ya go.


Yep!
Take for instance the Solea falseta we've been talking about that
i uploaded.
Its virtually a lesson in chord tone connecting.

He starts off over the E chord with the dominant 7th note "D" to start
the melody.
Then when he hits the F bass, he uses the root (F) leading chromatically to
the dominant 7th (Eflat) for the melody. (connecting the dots using chord tones!hello![;)] )
When he hits the G bass, he uses the major 3rd, then 2 notes later the dominant 7th.
Then when he hits that sneaky C bass, he hits the major 3rd, which btw is
just one half step away from that dominant 7th note of G. (classic voice leading)

Then he goes to F finally, uses the B note for the melody, which is the
tritone (flat 5/sharp 11)



ToddK -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 15:05:45)

Play this over an F chord


------------------------------------------------------3--5--7-----------------------------------
--------------------------------------------3--4--6---------------------------------------------
----------------------------------2--4--5-------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------1--3--5------------------------------------------------------------------
------------2--3--5-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-1--3--5----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is Lydian Dominant.

Take any major or dominant chord, and play a melodic minor scale from
the fifth degree of that chord.

So in this case , we have an F chord. The fifth is C. So we're playing C melodic
minor over an F chord.
This yeilds the dominant 7th and the flat 5/sharp 11 sound.

Here's another one.
For chords that are resolving down a 4th, like a 5-1 resolution or 6-2 resolution,
for instance E7 resolving to Amajor or A dominant.
Over the E7, you can play melodic minor, starting from a half step above the root (F melodic minor). This yeilds lots of altered tones.

-------------------------------------------------------8--10--12-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------------8--9--11---------------------------------------------------
----------------------------7--8--10----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------6--8--10----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---7--8--10-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you hit the A chord, you want to land on C#, A , or G.[:)]



takitaka -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 15:23:50)

Hi Todd, i agree with everything you said except the B is played over the C bass and then he lands on A with the F bass ! cheers.



ToddK -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 15:48:09)

quote:

Hi Todd, i agree with everything you said except the B is played over the C bass and then he lands on A with the F bass


Nope, look at my tab, and the video.

Over the C bass, he plays E = the 3rd. And on the F he lands on B.

Dont make me have to make another video!! [:D]


TK



takitaka -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 15:58:55)

nope ,i'm talking about the black and white video on utube he lands right on the beat with F and A !!![:)][:)][:)]



ToddK -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 16:15:15)

quote:

nope ,i'm talking about the black and white video on utube he lands right on the beat with F and A !!!


That's not the performance i transcribed. [:)]

In the black and white one, he offsets the F bass by a 16th.

The "A" note fits right in to the theory anyway, as it is the major 3rd of F.

TK



takitaka -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 16:20:17)

Hi, which performance did you transcribe i'm only familiar with the live utube version would love to hear the version you tabbed ,any chance? cheers[:)]



ToddK -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 16:22:48)

quote:

Hi, which performance did you transcribe i'm only familiar with the live utube version would love to hear the version you tabbed ,any chance? cheers


He does that falseta in virtually every Solea he plays, but he improvises
tiny changes each time.
There are even a few where he totally fluffs the C to F part completely.
It never really puts you off, cause you're too busy picking up your jaw
off of the floor when he does the picado run the follows that falsetta.
[:D]



takitaka -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 16:27:45)

so where can i hear a studio version ?[:)]
he sure gets it right on the version i'm talking about [:D]



ToddK -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 17:14:05)

quote:

so where can i hear a studio version


Buy the CD. i dont know which one has that solea on it.

Good luck![:)]

TK



Reinhardt -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 22:24:40)

Thx alot for all the replies and advice guys, really appreciate it :-)

I just want to do some scales and mix it up with a few basic barre chords and start improvising from their. . .



takitaka -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 13 2008 23:59:39)

thanks for the reply [8|]



Ramirez -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 14 2008 1:30:17)

A recorded version of that falseta appears on the opening solea of Paco's first album - La fabuloso Guitarra de Paco de Lucia.

The solea is called Gitanos Trianeros (one of my favourites!)

I think he uses the falseta in other soleas such as on the live recording on "en vivio desde el teatro real".

Hope that helps...



ToddK -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 14 2008 3:08:07)

quote:

thanks for the reply


Thanks for the sarcasm. It was yummy.[:)]



guitarbuddha -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 14 2008 3:54:25)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

quote:

thanks for the reply


Thanks for the sarcasm. It was yummy.[:)]


You have strange tastes Todd. I don't know think many of us share them.

D.



takitaka -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 14 2008 5:47:33)

thanks for the reply[;)]



Rain -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 14 2008 10:57:40)

Takitaka, you can find a recorded version of it on La Fabulosa Guitarra.



takitaka -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 14 2008 14:28:09)

Ok thanks for the info . Just listened to that version and it too has the Fand the A landing right on the beat strange that isn't it ![:D]



Reinhardt -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 14 2008 21:42:53)

Lol you guys were going on about this bass note landing for more than 20 posts [:D]



enurbf03 -> RE: Good Improvising scales (Oct. 15 2008 0:55:48)

quote:

Ok thanks for the info . Just listened to that version and it too has the Fand the A landing right on the beat strange that isn't it !


The A actually lands with the F bass on the 16th after the onbeat. Similar to the Cbass and E note prior. But these are such small details, it really doesnt matter. The idea actually is to variate falsetas anyway. Most really good players rarely play anything totally verbatum. Its the same way in american jazz. Many jazz players couldnt repeat a solo verbatum even if you put a gun to their head. [:D]



takitaka -> [Deleted] (Oct. 15 2008 3:19:48)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Oct. 15 2008 3:36:07



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