christian artists (Full Version)

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dm10 -> christian artists (Aug. 27 2008 15:48:24)

does anyone know of any christian flamenco artists? I have found "Alabastro" and "Tabita". Just wanted to know if there were any others. Thanks.



Stu -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 27 2008 16:34:13)

I don't know the religions of any flamenco artists!!
never even thought about such a thing.

so if you've found 2 christians what are all the others? Paco for example??

no offence intended but why are you interested??

Stu



Guest -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 27 2008 16:50:51)

Paco is satanic.



val -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 0:17:26)

Spain is a predominantly Catholic country. Won't the majority be Christian - or raised that way?



Ricardo -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 0:21:54)

Many flamencos of late have turned to the Evangelical cult. They call it the "culto". Is that what you mean? If so there are a lot of them.

Ricardo



Ron.M -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 1:50:10)

quote:

Many flamencos of late have turned to the Evangelical cult. They call it the "culto". Is that what you mean? If so there are a lot of them.

Ricardo


Can you expand on that Ricardo, or point to an article or something?

Do you mean Evangelist Christians entering the Flamenco scene, or established players being converted?

This sounds pretty amazing, sorta like hard drinking, womanizing old Delta Blues singers suddenly seeing the light! [:D]

One of them said that he didn't play the Blues anymore, cos it was the "Devil's Music."

"Why is it the Devil's Music?", asked the interviewer.

"You can tell it's the Devil's Music, cos anytime you play it in a bar, a fight breaks out right afterwards.", said the old ex-bluesman.

[:D][:D]

cheers,

Ron



Kate -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 2:31:28)

It's officially called La Iglesia Filadelfia. I don't know why as the founders were French missionaries and I dot know when they first began but they specifically targeted the Spanish Gypsy by setting up churches in the Gitano neighbourhoods. The sad thing for flamenco is that they try and stop their converts performing. I was talking with Cata Jimenez recently ( she sang on Pablo Maldonado's first album) and asking if she was still singing and she said now she only sang for God. On the other hand another singer El Tirado ( who sang on Emilio's album) still performs despite converting. He told me the cult saved his life and carries and reads his bible all the time. The church targets drug addicts and is very successful with helping them stop using which is no bad thing I suppose.

But yes Ron they use that old chestnut that it's the devil making you drink/use drugs and play flamenco. So we're all doomed.

EDIT: I just found this article which may be of interest http://www.transcomm.ox.ac.uk/working%20papers/WPTC-01-04%20Gayyblasco.pdf


Kate



Stu -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 3:44:29)

So... Religion?? what a topic... forums have been shut down for less!! [:D][:D]

Interesting stuff. thanks for that info kate.

When religion helps people through their troubles then thats good, but I am yet to understand how a people can stop doing something that was once their biggest love!!! surely this is wrong!!

I remember going to a canoeing holiday when iwas younger, it was run by the local vicar and although me and my friends were there for the sport, every night we had to play ball and do this weird prayer/discussion thing.

I remember one guy telling his story about how he was a born again christian, he told of how, before he saw the light, a typical weekend was to meet his mates, go for a few beers, chat up some ladies, go to the football and cheer on his team usually with a fair amount of swearing!!
e then told us that since becoming a christian he stopped doing all that and now just devotes his time to the bible and prayer!!![&:][&:]
What????

Sorry but religion seems to suck a little if done wrongly!!

Stu



KenK -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 6:12:09)

I've known some people who got petty deep into one of those New Age "Channeled Spirit" cults. I've also known my share of "Born Agains".

They're all blinded by the "Light".

Think about the jihadists who believe they're doing God's work by killing themselves and as many innocent people as possible.

Religion is sick and dangerous.

KenK



Pimientito -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 7:01:03)

quote:

So... Religion?? what a topic... forums have been shut down for less!!


[X(][:(]



vasileos -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 11:38:16)

I read this book (see link below) recently regarding the Gypsies in Perpignon. It covers the conversion of the Gypsies to pentecostal christianity. Interesting read and shows that this conversion is going on in France as well as in Spain.

Also, somewhere I read recently that the fastest growing religion in Latin America is protestantism- pentecostal, baptist, etc. The catholic church is losing ground apparently.

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/books/review/26wagner.html



cigany -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 11:47:53)

This reminds of a thread here in March about Potito retiring for religious reasons. I hope he continues singing. I don't like the idea of flamenco being bad for anyone.



Adam -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 12:08:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pimientito

quote:

So... Religion?? what a topic... forums have been shut down for less!!


[X(][:(]


Chairman Bob runs his foros with an iron fist and making a new foro for an arbitrary flamenco division was a terrible idea - now there's something forums have been shut down for, but at least it's something we can all agree about [:D][:D]



dm10 -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 12:53:23)

I wasn't trying to denigrate any flamenco artists. I enjoy all of flamenco. I was just trying to learn about flamenco artists that sing christian "praise and worship" lyrics like "alabastro". I also enjoy flamenco praise and worship as well as songs about love and loss.



dm10 -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 12:55:43)

I was referring to evangelical flamenco music. Can you name some of the artists or at least point me in their direction?



henrym3483 -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 15:25:57)

King david worshipped god by dancing, king solomon by song, and jesus went to many feasts for marriages and baptisms where music song and drink were prevalent. the angels sing, the chorus of trumpets.

the bible is full of reference to mirth and music and life, and i think jesus would not hold it against me if i play guitar, or dance, or sing.

to sing to god or to the worship of god is a very profound and personal thing, the saeta is a siguiriyas palo dedicated to the expiration of christ on the cross, the letras are very profound. i was moved to tears once when i saw la paquera sing it in a video, and i have listened to many profound a moving pieces but the way she sang it cut me to the core.

flamenco itself has so many references to mary the mother of jesus, to jesus, and god. its hard to believe something so beautiful born of man who was made in gods image could be sinful.



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 15:39:03)

quote:

the saeta is a siguiriyas palo dedicated to the expiration of christ on the cross


I didn't know this--thanks.



Estevan -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 18:08:58)

We discussed this a while ago. I'm away and don't have time to look it up right now, but if you search on 'Potito' you might find it. He announced last year that he was retiring from flamenco in order to "sing for God" and "save souls". As Kate and Ricardo said, it's part of the evangelical cult.

Then there are some flamencos who are followers of the guru formerly known as Maharaj-ji - Encarna Anillo and her crew.

And of course there are lots of flamencos who are probably nominally Roman Catholic - probably all the rest. For me the best music is made by people who are not self-conscious about their beliefs.

quote:

no offence intended but why are you interested??



Florian -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 21:00:03)

I like hearing of flamencos beeing saved by religions but i dont like hearing that it
brainshes them into stop bringing people joy.

I am not religious at all..

but if i was, if i did belive in a higher power i would not do it the way religions tell me i should


you dont need to go inside a building with a cross on top to be a good beliver

I got big issues against religion (by itself its not bad, it teaches people to be and do good for the most part and there are people involved who absoluteley do good all the time) yet most wars, most killing in the world over history has been in the name of religion.

Religion is not bad but as long as humans are involved there ill always be someone using it to theyr advantage.

And to me litlle of what i know about religion and people belive about god it all
contradicts itself.

"Hes forgiving yet he will punish you if you dont aknolodge him"

sorry i dont mean to step on anyones belifs..again the idea is good i just dont like the practices.

one can be a good person without the fear that if hes not he will burn in hell...(as i will after this comment [:)])


and i may very well be wrong about all this ..(but. thats another problem with most religions the idea that they might possibly be wrong never enters anyone mind)

when someone dosent even entertain the idea that they dont know it all, they could make mistakes and be wrong thats when they lost all sensibility, and i just dont trust anyone that dosent have sensibility.

But i am just talking [:)] maybe i dont like to aknolodge religion because the sins are too eazy to brake ...the rules are too strict, and if it was all true i will be playing guitar with the devil for eternity and for what for laying a litlle and having a litlle bit of sex and downloading a couple of copywrited books [&:]

there should be some yellow cards systems or something..I sined before i even knew it was a sin..i think when i was 3 i stole someones toy...or does an underage get a free pass ? i hope so because when i was about 8 i lied, stole,I was jelous, might have even killed a bird or 2.

or is it ok to kill if you say you are sorry ?

its all very confusing and contradicting



Estevan -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 28 2008 22:26:40)

quote:

I was referring to evangelical flamenco music. Can you name some of the artists or at least point me in their direction?


It's not flamenco, although it may sound sort of like it.
Look on YouTube for Potito, and Guadiana. You will find videos of them singing at church services ("culto").
They are both great artists (or were before they joined the cult. I can't yet say how it has affected their performances).



Pimientito -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 29 2008 1:10:17)

quote:


I was referring to evangelical flamenco music.


I think this is like looking for evangelical Rock or evangelical Jazz. You can find it out there somewhere but for me it does not encapsulate the root or feeling of what those musical forms are about, and musically the forms tend to suffer.
Flamenco has Islamic, Jewish and Catholic influences. Which are more spiritual? Which are good, which are evil?

I have never understood what "devils music" is supposed to be...Antonio Vivaldi...Paganini...Elvis presley?...all of whom have been accused by various churches over the centuries of producing Devils music. For this reason I think religeons are not the best judges of music and sciences.

I think Henry summed it up best, music has a beauty and purity that comes from the divine side of humanity. An evangelical lyric is superfluous when the perfect performance of an art can be regarded in itself as a type of praise, and the listener can be lifted or moved emotionally or spiritually. Often I dont understand a flamenco lyric but it doesnt stop me feeling the intensity and passion of a performance.

Its when an artistic performance can touch you on a spiritual level that we feel duende...which is an important part of flamenco no matter what church you believe in.



Kate -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 29 2008 4:49:31)

quote:

ORIGINAL: henrym3483
i was moved to tears once when i saw la paquera sing it in a video, and i have listened to many profound a moving pieces but the way she sang it cut me to the core.


I confess, me too, standing on the street during Semana Santa, tears pouring down my face. Saetas are heart breaking and beautiful. Not only sung to Jesus but also the Virgin Mary.

Kate



Ricardo -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 29 2008 13:08:09)

Montse Cortes and Duquende have slipped in some serious christian lyrics into flamenco, but obviously not "traditional' cantes. Basically, Flamenco is looked at as a decadent (fiestas and drugs mainly) lifestyle and the lyrics are profane, not spiritual. Therefore the converts, such as Potito, should be "giving up" the unspiritual lifestyle and music that goes with it. Certain relgious Sevillanas, and particularly SAETAS are NOT flamenco music at all. It is believed that Saetas might have evolved INTO siguiriyas, tonas, and martinetes, but are not the same family of songs.

Saeta:



henrym3483 -> RE: christian artists (Aug. 30 2008 10:48:47)

id have to say one thing about the performance of la saeta, watching the singerrs i have seen sing is the uncanny ability to it in one breath (those i saw sing it, la paquera, aguejetas el viejo, el sordera) , you'd have to have lungs like oxen to get the sound and strength in the voice, that and the siguiriya of manuel torre one breath in and out and back in again, crazy strong lungs.



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