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Miguel de Maria -> gigin (Apr. 17 2004 3:39:08)
Guys, this week has been pretty busy, when all is said and done, I'll have 13 hours of gigging just this week! This is starting to feel like a real job.

Billyboy -> RE: gigin (Apr. 17 2004 16:28:15)
Which country do you live in Miguel?. Cheers Dave

Miguel de Maria -> RE: gigin (Apr. 17 2004 17:21:32)
I live in the Southwest. USA, that is.

Billyboy -> RE: gigin (Apr. 17 2004 18:22:04)
Thought you might say Wigan for a moment, that would have got me thinking,[:D] Is there a large Hispanic aficionado community down there. Cheers Dave

Miguel de Maria -> RE: gigin (Apr. 17 2004 20:08:00)
Yes, Phoenix is maybe 30% hispanic. But don't be deceived, they are assuredly not my clients. Rich White People are my clients.

Jon Boyes -> RE: gigin (Apr. 19 2004 8:21:42)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria Guys, this week has been pretty busy, when all is said and done, I'll have 13 hours of gigging just this week! This is starting to feel like a real job. Sounds like the hard work is paying off Mike. I have quite a busy week too - three gigs lined up: one wedding, one pub, one club. The club is a killer - I have to be there by 9pm, start at 9.40 and I don't get finished until about 12.45am [&:]. They demand three forty minute sets, which doesn't sound to bad, but its a long night... Doesn't pay to good, either [:(] Jon

Miguel de Maria -> RE: gigin (Apr. 19 2004 17:00:09)
Good for you Jon. It slows down terribly around here in the summer, unless some of my machinations succeed. Is there a marked difference seasonally for you, as well? Don't worry about the club gig, just make it count! Pass out cards, get your name out there, sell CDs, it's a great opportunity to promote yourself!

Jon Boyes -> RE: gigin (Apr. 20 2004 8:25:35)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria . Is there a marked difference seasonally for you, as well? Yes - loads more work in summer! Britain is grey and wet in the winter and not much fun. Consequently, restaurants are much quieter in the winter round here. Also, I live/work in a tourism area. From Spring onwards, the weather is nicer, things get busy and people are much more into the idea of Spanish guitar music (lots of Brits go on holiday in Spain and like to be reminded of their hols too...). Also, people get married in Spring/summer, so the wedding work picks up. On the weekend I was offered work on a three month cruise in the Carribean starting in May. It was 750 dollars a week but I turned it down, mainly due to family reasons. Also I already have a part time day job, and as I said, this is now my busy season as a musician so it doesn't make sense to split the day job AND drop out of the music scene at its busiest point. Anyway, I shall just have to get myself a suntan and pretend I've been in the carribean for three months [:D] Jon

Billyboy -> RE: gigin (Apr. 20 2004 13:39:39)
jeez Jon I would have jumped at that Cruise Job, the money is a fantastic amount, you would have come back loaded, any chance of putting a word in. Trouble is I don't play any popular stuff Dave

Jon Boyes -> RE: gigin (Apr. 20 2004 14:49:07)
quote: ORIGINAL: Billyboy jeez Jon I would have jumped at that Cruise Job, the money is a fantastic amount, you would have come back loaded, any chance of putting a word in. I can see how it sounds great Dave, but its not THAT great when you look into it. I think it worked out at around 350 quid a week after paying the agency commission fee. I have no idea whether they pay the travel costs to and from the boat. They probably work you to the bone on those cruises - I am sure it would be six days a week, probably two long sets a day. Like I said, I would have had to jack in the day job, and my contract runs to December, so that would be a major financial drawback.You need some kind of special work visa too, I forgot to mention. It just wouldn't have been worth it for me - I have four wedding gigs coming up in the next month or so, and they pay well. Jon

Miguel de Maria -> RE: gigin (Apr. 20 2004 15:18:32)
Yeah, sorry I don't love to play so much Id like to be stranded on a boat with a bunch of old people playing two sets a day. Not for 350!

Billyboy -> RE: gigin (Apr. 20 2004 20:52:40)
quote: Yeah, sorry I don't love to play so much Id like to be stranded on a boat with a bunch of old people playing two sets a day. Not for 350! Yeh but what about the young dancers, bound to get lonely, all that time at sea [;)], but seriously two sets a day woulden't faze me, imagine how fast that picado would be after a few months, how did you get that offer Jon, and how would you aplly for the job, and would there be a lot of competition, it would suit me down to the ground, I play a lot of Bach, which probably be more suitable to a Cruise. Cheers Dave

Jon Boyes -> RE: gigin (Apr. 22 2004 8:42:37)
quote: ORIGINAL: Billyboy , how did you get that offer Jon, and how would you aplly for the job, and would there be a lot of competition, I was offered it through a UK agency that specialises in classical and flamenco guitarists: http://www.classicalguitarist.co.uk/ You'll need to have a demo, biog etc. to send them to be listed with them (as well as an idea of what your fee is!). Geoff, who runs the agency, just rang me up and asked if I was interested. I doubt whether there'd be any competition, Dave, more a case of scrabbling around trying to find somenone who'd actually be prepared to do it. Its probably too late to do this gig anyhow, boat leaves on May 5th and I doubt whether you'd get a visa in time. Jon

Billyboy -> RE: gigin (Apr. 22 2004 12:57:24)
Thanks Jon, do you think the sound quality of those pieces I posted would be good enough or not? Cheers Dave

Jon Boyes -> RE: gigin (Apr. 22 2004 13:28:06)
quote: ORIGINAL: Billyboy Thanks Jon, do you think the sound quality of those pieces I posted would be good enough or not? Probably not, if I'm really honest. The levels are too low and there's a lot of noise. You could improve things a lot by normalising the clips and removing some of the noise (free software on the web will do this), but if I was in your position I'd be waiting to get some better gear to re-record a decent qualty demo first. Especially as Riqueni aint exactly everyone's cup of tea. To be honest, a well recorded clip of some standards plus a little flamenco would go down a lot better. Your demo is VERY imortant Dave - its worth spending time and money getting it right rather than trying to promote yourself with something thats poor quality. Bear in mind that agencies like Geoff's will simply send a few CDs and players' biogs off to a potential client who will choose what they want. If all the other demos are clear recordings with plenty of level, what chance will yours stand? It will just sound poor quality and unprofessional in comparison, regardless of the quality of your playing. First impressions are everything - they get you the gig. All this stuff takes time and money to get right, for sure, but its an investment. One thing I still need to do myself is get some professional photos done. Jon

Billyboy -> RE: gigin (Apr. 22 2004 22:00:58)
Thanks Jon

Billyboy -> RE: gigin (Apr. 29 2004 19:54:26)
The Artist must ensure that adequate Public Liability Insurance is operational and that the Policy Document be available for inspection on request. The Agency will not deem themselves responsible for any act or omission by the Performer for Third Party Bodily Injury or damage to Third Party Property howsoever caused during the performance or in the setting up/dismantling of any equipment. They will also ensure that all electrical equipment has been P.A.T. tested. Copies of current insurance certificates and equipment guarantees must be produced for the client or the agent upon request. . Jon what is all this about, do you have all this insuarance? This sounds just silly to me Dave

Miguel de Maria -> RE: gigin (Apr. 29 2004 21:00:36)
I don't have any insurance, and I don't know of any musician who does. Although maybe I'm just out of the loop. My wife is, however, a personal injury lawyer.

Ron.M -> RE: gigin (Apr. 30 2004 8:07:07)
As a general rule here in the UK, anybody who does any kind of work for any business or individual on a self employed basis should carry Public Liability insurance cover. P.A.T testing is basic safety testing of electrical equipment. Any electrical equipment used in a public place, ie office, hospital, retirement home etc etc must be regulary tested for basic safety.You cannot, for instance bring a ropey old electrical extension box with frayed wires exposed and repaired by yourself with bits of insulation tape, into a restaurant and expect to plead innocence if a member of the public accidentally touches it and gets electrocuted. You will be in deep trouble. On the other hand, it's not expensive to get £1,000,000 of cover and you will have the insurance company's lawyers fighting your corner in the event of someone making a claim against you. Which is handy, since criminal charges could also be brought against you, which means you could possibly face a jail sentence. With no insurance, a successful claim against you by a restaurant staff member or member of the public could see you losing your house, car and any savings you may have. BTW, they can't take your guitar, because under an archaic law, they must leave you with "the tools of your Trade". Liability cases are becoming popular here and there is a story of a woman suing her friend and host at a posh London dinner party because her chair broke and she claims that she now has a bad back. That's the London set for you! LOL! Ron

Escribano -> RE: gigin (Apr. 30 2004 8:15:05)
quote: This sounds just silly to me On the other hand, it is intended to cover accidents like this .... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/3169633.stm

Jon Boyes -> RE: gigin (Apr. 30 2004 9:06:57)
quote: ORIGINAL: Billyboy Jon what is all this about, do you have all this insuarance? This sounds just silly to me Yes I do and no it isn't. It is part and parcel of operating a business as Ron says. I have a quarter of a million quids worth of public liability cover, and all my gear is PAT tested. Its no big deal - my public liability cover comes as part of my insurance cover for my gear anyway (there are companies that specialise in insurance for musicians) which I think is about 60 quid for thousands of pounds worth of gear, and the PAT testing cost me about thirty quid for all my gear. Peanuts really, compare to what it would cost if someone tripped over one of my PA speaker cables and sued me, or if my gear was electrically unsound and there was an accident - I'd be paying them back for the rest of my life. Some contractors (agencies or even venues) insist on this as you've found, so if I didn't do it I'd also be in breach of contract as well. I've heard of venues doing spot checks, to cover their own backs. Imagine turning up to do a wedding gig only to find you can't play because you don't have the right piece of paper! This really is a no-brainer, you are weighing enormous personal risks against a tiny financial outlay. Take a look at half an hour of British commercial television these days and count how many adverts from 'no win no fee' personal accident vultures, sorry solicitors, there are. Mike, you are nuts if you don't insure yourself, particularly in your part of the world where they sue at the drop of a hat. I don't know of any serious musician here who DOESN'T have this cover. Next topic: tax and why you need an accountant [:D] Jon

Billyboy -> RE: gigin (Apr. 30 2004 14:27:10)
What kind of risks are involved with playing Flamenco Guitar, its not really a high risk sport.[:D] I never play with an amp anyway, would that make a difference? Dave

Billyboy -> RE: gigin (Apr. 30 2004 14:34:11)
quote: On the other hand, it is intended to cover accidents like this Ive heard of guitarists having a killer picado, but cant see myself killing 100 people during an acoustic restaurant gig. Most restuarants don't hold that many people anyway. Dave

Kate -> RE: gigin (Apr. 30 2004 14:40:38)
Most definitely kate

Jon Boyes -> RE: gigin (Apr. 30 2004 15:29:16)
quote: ORIGINAL: Billyboy What kind of risks are involved with playing Flamenco Guitar, its not really a high risk sport.[:D] I never play with an amp anyway, would that make a difference? Not having electrics, amps etc certainly lessens the risks a great deal. PAT testing, for one thing, will be irrelevant for you. However, you've been asking questions about amplification so I assumed this wasn't the case. To be honest, if you are just playing the ocasional (acoustic) gig in a restaurant once in a while as a hobby, you don't need to worry about this stuff. For me the situation is different, I am gigging regularly with lots of PA gear etc. and this is part of my livelyhood. You don't say where you got that quote that you posted, or why it affects you. Go back and read the bit in my above post about breach of contract. Jon

Escribano -> RE: gigin (Apr. 30 2004 17:31:05)
quote: but cant see myself killing 100 people during an acoustic restaurant gig You have a point. Though you may bop someone on the head accidentally, they fall off their chair, pulling the candlelit tablecloth and ..... well, you get the idea[:D]

Billyboy -> RE: gigin (Apr. 30 2004 21:47:08)
The 100 killed story came from Simons BBC link he posted. Actually I have always played acoustically, but must admit it is difficult to hear yourself play that’s why I was considering amplifying it. Up north restaurant prices are a fraction of those down south, even the very good ones, so they tend to be a bit tight for paying for a musician, the jobs are very intermittent, but Weddings is something I’ve never done, due to not having an agent,. something I will try and remedy. That Guitar agency you posted the link to, do they cover the north of England? Thanks Jon Simon and Ron for all the info you have posted on this matter, a lot of things I didn’t realise. Cheers Dave

Escribano -> RE: gigin (Apr. 30 2004 22:45:41)
If you blow up the PA, like we did once (though, not with flamenco ) you may not get paid at all. That will then involve a running fight in the streets of Preston[8D]

Miguel de Maria -> RE: gigin (May 1 2004 0:22:26)
Well, as I've said, my wife is a personal injury lawyer (the type of lawyer that sues people who have injured other people) and she's going to look into it for me. I've never heard of a musician over on this side even mention this kind of thing, but might as well check it out.

Jon Boyes -> RE: gigin (May 1 2004 7:26:50)
quote: ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria Well, as I've said, my wife is a personal injury lawyer (the type of lawyer that sues people who have injured other people) Whoops. Sorry if I caused any offence with my earlier remark, Mike. Jon

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