Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Full Version)

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TANúñez -> Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 2 2008 6:41:45)

Were thin nut widths back in the old days customary? This 1943 Santos I'm copying has a nut width of 51mm. Too small for my liking but I want to stay true to the design so it will have the 51mm nut.

The plans being sold for the 1933 Santos also have a 50 or 51mm nut. Just curious if this was the norm back in the 30's and 40's.



HemeolaMan -> RE: Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 2 2008 7:03:09)

i would think you are right.

if you look at the trends of most guitar types, steel string, classical electric... most start out thinner and then get wider..

purely hyposthesis.

i'm sorry about your small nut problem



RobJe -> RE: Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 2 2008 8:43:52)

Don't worry - size isn't everything! Here are a few from my records.
1865 Torres 49 mm
1903 Santos 49 mm
Segovia's 1912 Manuel Ramirez 51 mm
1913 Jose Ramirez I 49 mm
1955 Jose Ramirez II 50 mm
1962 Juan Alvarez 51 mm
1968 Reyes 51 mm
Rob



HemeolaMan -> RE: Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 2 2008 8:54:55)

i guess that evidence certainly does support my thesis. however, is that the current size of the nut or the size when it was built? maybe some materials shrink???????



Gummy -> RE: Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 2 2008 9:54:30)

Yeah shrinkage... You wouldn't accidently want to bust an nut either.



TANúñez -> RE: Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 2 2008 13:31:55)

quote:

is that the current size of the nut or the size when it was built? maybe some materials shrink???????


Nuts shrink in the cold. [:D]



TANúñez -> RE: Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 2 2008 13:34:13)

quote:

Don't worry - size isn't everything! Here are a few from my records.
1865 Torres 49 mm
1903 Santos 49 mm
Segovia's 1912 Manuel Ramirez 51 mm
1913 Jose Ramirez I 49 mm
1955 Jose Ramirez II 50 mm
1962 Juan Alvarez 51 mm
1968 Reyes 51 mm
Rob


Thanks Rob. Interesting. I wonder at what point they got wider. Seems like now, 52mm is pretty much standard for classical but anywhere from 52mm to 660mm being typical for flamencos. Then you have the Conde Bros. with their macho 664mm nuts.



RobJe -> RE: Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 3 2008 3:59:10)

Too much thinking about your nuts can affect the brain Tom! Surely you are mixing scale lengths and nut dimensions in your last post?
I don't think there was strict progression. Here are some more
1870 Francisco Gonzales 52 mm
1874 Vincente Arias 52 mm
For me, anything between 49 mm and 53 mm is playable as far as string separation goes. I would prefer 52 mm if I was commissioning a guitar. Neck profile is also important. I have one 49 mm 1960 Parramon which has such a nice sound and pulsation that I am rather attached to it.
Now the big question. If Santos came back from the dead, would be be making replicas of his 1930's work or trying to meet the demands of current guitarists? I always think of this when I hear that someone is making a replica of an historical guitar. This is not a criticism but I am intrigued to know more about your motivation.
Rob



HemeolaMan -> RE: Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 3 2008 12:00:12)

robje, thats a thing i have always wondered.

people who were ahead of the curve beforehand, do you htink htey'd be ahead of the curve now?



RobJe -> RE: Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 4 2008 2:43:01)

True genius is never satisfied and never stands still.
Rob



TANúñez -> RE: Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 4 2008 3:25:22)

Sorry Rob, thanks for pointing that out. I didn't mean to mix up nuts widths and scales but trying to point out the evolution from smaller guitars to larger.

I think if Santos were alive today, he'd probably build guitars to suit todays players. I believe back then, most guitarists played mostly on the lower frets. Nowadays, guitarists use the whole fingerboard.

My motivation for building a replica of this guitar is just to "try" to capture the originals sound and playability which I absolutely loved. I thought I'd give it a shot since I have access to the original for reference.



RobJe -> RE: Santos Hernandez and his thin nuts (Feb. 4 2008 3:52:57)

A labour of love Tom. I guess if you get somewhere near the sound you will learn something more about how things work. Good luck!
On the question of scale length, my 60 Parramon is 645 mm. There are signs that this was sold with a new label in 1960, but was in effect a repaired older guitar (dirt under the varnish from a sweaty arm, some fret replacement etc.)
Rob



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