posture: traditional or like Paco? (Full Version)

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Michael1917 -> posture: traditional or like Paco? (Jan. 23 2008 13:32:17)

Hi---I was wondering if any of you folks play flamenco with the bottom of the guitar resting on your right thigh, like the older traditional style (Ramon Montoya) and the neck sticking higher up? (compared to the Paco de Lucia style with the guitar body resting completely on the right thigh). I started classical years back with half the guitar resting on left thigh and I've been constantly trying to re-learn a new position with flamenco, and guitar held like Paco de Lucia or a slightly modified version --a mix of Montoya position and de Lucia. Does anyone out there still play in the traditional posture and I was wondering if any of you have thoughts on which posture is better. I feel mroe comfortable and play mroe relaxed in the Montoya position but also find it easier to play certain things in the Paco position. Weird.



HemeolaMan -> RE: posture: traditional or like Paco? (Jan. 23 2008 15:25:13)

well mike sauce,

here's the wonderful thing about flamenco: do what you want

if you want to play like its a classical, you do that, but if you need to switch it up to play other stuff, switch it up.

i go back and forth myself, i dont really stick to one position, i find a comfortable one, and as soon as i start getting to a part where i like a different position better, i switch.

however its hard to get the flamenco sound without having the guitar on the righ tleg. its just physics and the way your body is in relation to the strings.



wiglebot -> RE: posture: traditional or like Paco? (Jan. 23 2008 16:21:13)

Man I went though so much experimentation with this because I played the guitar before learning flamenco:

PdL pretty much had both mastered -- watch his b&l vid of Impetu on youtube.

Here is my 2 cents.
To get my right hand (arm) in position for fast transitions, strumming, and picados, the guitar needs to be off-center where the waist is about over the right thigh -- what H.Man was saying.

If I keep that in mind and lift the neck a little and push the neck away from the body, I get the left hand and the right arm where I need them. Then I like the guitar a little higher on my chest. I used to need the guitar very stable, and flamenco players are always moving it around (watch Vicente Amigo -- he jerks it around, shuts his eyes and shreds).

But I first went with the "two-leg-bridging" approach like Sabica and Pepe Romero.
Sabicas

Romero


Once I did this for a while and tried not to slouch and not to shoulder dip, a little flamenco started happening. Then I was OK with the cross legged right thigh position as long as it is a low enough chair to have the guitar up a bit.

That is about as short as I can get this post -- hope it helps



HemeolaMan -> RE: posture: traditional or like Paco? (Jan. 23 2008 17:46:26)

a little lean forward is good for you, if you align yor spine well, having your feet both on the floor also good, esp if they are cockeyed

classical pianists lean forward, more like sit forward. the have one leg out farther and one back more. this is how i sit at piano. this is how i sit for guitar. it is comfortable, it allows you to use the weight of your limbs and gravity to do most of the work.

as for sabicas and having the leg up..... sitting like that will mess you up.

that said, sitting like paco will messs you up.

try to get a gitano guitar support. that wont mess you up.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: posture: traditional or like Paco? (Jan. 23 2008 18:43:20)

The problem with the trad. position is that the guitar slips on your thigh if you dont lift the neck a lot.

I play (almost) traditional posture, but I put a piece of rubber cloth between the guitar and the thigh. You know these rubber nets, 2mm thick, that you use for kitchens.

This way the guitar doesnt slip and I can lower the neck, giving me a very relaxed playing position, and also, it makes it possible to play in different seat heights,sofa, chair etc.

I used to play cross leg for years and I could do so for some hours a day, but its VERY bad for blod circulation and for the back.

Remember that on order to play well, its important to to relax.



Doog -> RE: posture: traditional or like Paco? (Jan. 23 2008 20:38:54)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael1917

Hi---I was wondering if any of you folks play flamenco with the bottom of the guitar resting on your right thigh, like the older traditional style (Ramon Montoya) and the neck sticking higher up? (compared to the Paco de Lucia style with the guitar body resting completely on the right thigh). I started classical years back with half the guitar resting on left thigh and I've been constantly trying to re-learn a new position with flamenco, and guitar held like Paco de Lucia or a slightly modified version --a mix of Montoya position and de Lucia. Does anyone out there still play in the traditional posture and I was wondering if any of you have thoughts on which posture is better. I feel mroe comfortable and play mroe relaxed in the Montoya position but also find it easier to play certain things in the Paco position. Weird.


Hi Michael,

I definitely use and prefer the traditional flamenco position with the guitar resting on my right thigh. I use the same position for classical. It is easiest on my whole body - neck, upper and lower back, legs, and feet. I may move my legs and shift a little, but I stay within the basic position.

Like Anders, I found that the guitar tends to slip on the thigh. Also like anders, I use a 6" x 12" piece of rubber that is about 1mm thick between my thigh and the guitar. It works excellently. I got it from a physical therapist. It is used for resistance exercises to increase muscle strength. It is smooth, but has just enough friction to do the job and it is not harmful to the guitar's surface.

Doog



Ailsa -> RE: posture: traditional or like Paco? (Jan. 24 2008 0:27:52)

quote:

I used to play cross leg for years and I could do so for some hours a day, but its VERY bad for blood circulation and for the back.


I play cross legged and Anders is right - it really puts a strain on your back. But I haven't found a comfortable alterntive yet.

My teacher suggested a foot rest under my right foot, and I tried it for a while, but even though it's a better position physiologically, it just felt 'wrong'.

I know this is a girl thing, but also I have to wear high heels or my right leg doesn't bring the guitar high enough up. [:D][:D]



xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: posture: traditional or like Paco? (Jan. 24 2008 10:02:31)

"I know this is a girl thing, but also I have to wear high heels or my right leg doesn't bring the guitar high enough up."

forgive me for saying that, but that's very funny :)



Ailsa -> RE: posture: traditional or like Paco? (Jan. 24 2008 10:14:40)

quote:

forgive me for saying that, but that's very funny :)


[:D][:D] No probs! But we girlie guitarists are going to make our way into flamenco soon, so you guys might as well get used to our funny little ways. [:D]



John O. -> RE: posture: traditional or like Paco? (Jan. 25 2008 3:10:39)

I was born with a bad back so anything unhealthy I feel relatively quick. PDL's is one of the least healthy for your lower back - pushes it outward and the weight of your torso sits on it that way. Traditional is better but still twists your back sideways. The healthiest is the classical position, but doesn't work for me at all.

I do the PDL position although it's not really good for me, I have to make up for it and working in front of a computer all day with physiotherapy exercises everyday. Don't recommend it, it's not fun [:D]

Ricardo wrote recently no matter how you prefer it's best to move a lot and not stay in one position too long, which is definitely good advice.



wiglebot -> RE: posture: traditional or like Paco? (Jan. 25 2008 6:29:04)

One more thing for me now: as long as I have the guitar in the position I described, there are many postures.
--small pillow wrapped in rubber -- neoprene.
--Cross legged (either leg -- tight cross for left over right with a traction rug matt)
--Sabicas
--And definitely the couch for scales....and memory work (people may argue this chilled position does not bring dignity to the music).



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