Tone Woods Query (Full Version)

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Jasmine_27 -> Tone Woods Query (Dec. 24 2007 13:46:57)

I've gotten curious about guitar-making and have some very general questions about tone woods. I'd like to know if you have any comments about Sitka vs. Englemann vs. Adirondack spruce tops. How do they compare? What kind of characteristics do they have? Which do you prefer to work with or to play and why?

I know the most traditional choice is cypress sides and spruce top, but wonder if you've also experimented with other combinations? I'm leaning toward cedar and rosewood myself, but that's based on appearance alone, and isn't the best way to make a choice!!!



Armando -> RE: Tone Woods Query (Dec. 24 2007 22:08:02)

Hi Jasmine_27

Accoring to your post i assume that you want to build a flamenca blanca guitar because cypress for back and sides and spruce for the top is the preffered combination on a blanca.

The wood species that you have mentioned except the engelman are usually preffered on steel string guitars. Allthough sitka has similar physical properties to european spruce its tone is quite different. I have not yet built guitars with either of the three. I have read that adirondak is a very good tonewood for steelstrings but i don't know of anybody using this wood for flamenco guitars. I have no doubt, that some luthiers tried all these species but due to certain reasons do not use them for flamencos. Engelman in turn is the counterpiece to the european spruce. Allthough slightly less stiff than most european, it comes very close in terms of tonal propperties. Many american luthiers work with it and they build very nice sounding flamenco guitars with it.

You may find also some useful information about tonewoods on lmii.com

regards

Armando



TANúñez -> RE: Tone Woods Query (Dec. 25 2007 4:02:32)

Jasmine,

Go here and you can read up on all the many types of woods. Click on each one to read about it.

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/Secondproducthead.asp?CategoryName=++Tops+%2D+Tonewood



jshelton5040 -> RE: Tone Woods Query (Dec. 25 2007 10:41:21)

Our first Engelmann topped guitar was a double body classic. I didn't like it but our friend Manuel Lopez-Ramos played it and went crazy over it. He said it was the guitar of his dreams and I must say it sounded really good when he played it. I sold the last of our Engelmann topwood this year, in my opinion it just isn't as good as European Spruce.

The guitars we built with Sitka tops to my ear had thin nasal voices. We stopped using it many years ago but if a respected luthier like John Gilbert used it on his guitars one must assume there's a way to make a good guitar from it.



Jasmine_27 -> RE: Tone Woods Query (Dec. 25 2007 12:00:38)

Dear Armando, Tom, and John,

Thanks to all of you for your helpful response. I have no background in wood-working, but am thinking about maybe building a guitar in a workshop course. In the meantime, I plan to follow up on your advice and learn a lot more before I make the first cut.

I'd also like to know if you have any comments about smaller-scale guitars - like 640 or even 630. Can regular plans be adapted to accommodate these changes, or would it be best done by an experienced luthier? Most of the guitars I see on websites are 660 to 665 and that's way too large for my hands!

Also, do you know any luthiers who might be willing to make a smaller-scale flamenco guitar? I won't have enough money to buy one for several more years, but want to scout around and see if anyone has information about this. So far, Kenny Hill is the only luthier I've found who makes hand-built and factory-built 640 flamencos, but don't know anything about their characteristics. Any comments? Thanks!!!



TANúñez -> RE: Tone Woods Query (Dec. 30 2007 2:02:34)

quote:

Thanks to all of you for your helpful response. I have no background in wood-working, but am thinking about maybe building a guitar in a workshop course. In the meantime, I plan to follow up on your advice and learn a lot more before I make the first cut.

I'd also like to know if you have any comments about smaller-scale guitars - like 640 or even 630. Can regular plans be adapted to accommodate these changes, or would it be best done by an experienced luthier? Most of the guitars I see on websites are 660 to 665 and that's way too large for my hands!

Also, do you know any luthiers who might be willing to make a smaller-scale flamenco guitar? I won't have enough money to buy one for several more years, but want to scout around and see if anyone has information about this. So far, Kenny Hill is the only luthier I've found who makes hand-built and factory-built 640 flamencos, but don't know anything about their characteristics. Any comments? Thanks!!!


Jasmine,

Aside from the birth of my children, there has been no greater feeling than playing a guitar that I built. It's a wonderful feeling and I encourage you to give it a try if your really serious about it. Before you begin, buy the book 'Making Master Guitars' by Roy Courtnall or a new book with modern techniques called 'Classical Guitar Making' by J.S. Bogdanovich. It's good to be prepared and know what you'll be getting into.

You can make a shorter scale guitar by just changing the numbers a little. Basically it'll depend on changing the distance from the nut to the 12th fret, the soundhole location, and the distance from the 12th fret to the saddle.

A lot of makers will custom build you a guitar with a shorter scale. I personally think shorter scale guitars work better for classials than flamencos. I feel you lose some of the flamenco sound characteristics with a short scale. Plus, when you put the capo on, it will make for a really tight fit in the upper registers.

It also won't necessarily be cheaper for a guitar this way. Tools, or good tools I should say, are expensive and you'll require many. If you can find someone to help you build using their tools and shop, great, as you'll save money depending on what their fees will be for the use of their time and shop. If you have to go on your own, it can be expensive.



Jasmine_27 -> RE: Tone Woods Query (Jan. 2 2008 13:02:24)

Tom,

Many thanks for your comments. Your comments are invaluable to me, and I'll take them into account when I decide what size guitar to build. Right now, I don't have access to a workshop, so this idea will remain a fantasy until I can locate one. Also, do you recommend building with kits to gain some hands-on experience before going for "the real thing"?



TANúñez -> RE: Tone Woods Query (Jan. 2 2008 14:07:35)

Well, kits are nice because you pay a lot less for everything that is included in it as opposed to buying each piece separately. Some kits even include the sides pre-bent which will be good if you don't have a heat pipe or bending machine. However, you'll have to build a solera/mold for assembly. This is still a good option of money is tight.

You don't necessarily have to wait until you've purchase all the tools before you begin. My very first guitar to almost a year to build because I purchased the tools I need for a particular job as I went along. It took a while but after the guitar was finished, I had collected most of the tools I needed.

In my case though, I had planed to build several guitars. So I could justify spending all this money on tools and making jigs. If your only planing on building one or two guitars, you may want to think twice about spending money on tools and see if you can find a luthier willing to let you use his tools and shops for a fee.

A kit wouldn't be a bad idea though to start off with. L.M.I. has what they call a 'Kit Wizard' which allows you to mix and match items for your kit. You can purchase a complete kit from them, or remove and/or add other items or upgrades.

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/GuitarKitWelcome.asp



Jasmine_27 -> RE: Tone Woods Query (Jan. 8 2008 15:08:32)

Thanks again for taking the time to offer some great advice! I'll have to explore Tokyo and see if any luthiers will allow me into their workspace - or maybe there are some guitar-building courses here as well. I live in a two-room house and have no proper work space, and am also worried about the humidity in spring and summer. I've no way to control it, so my guitar would probably fall apart like paper-mache! Cheers!



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